Renault to follow Toyota?

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hasalard
hasalard
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Renault to follow Toyota?

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"Renault is reported to have staged an emergency meeting in Paris on Wednesday with regards to the future of its Formula One team. Following news of Toyota's departure from the sport already today, it is believed the French company is considering whether to stay put as a works team, engine supplier or leave completely."

It seems like F1 may lose Renault too..For the full news http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/11/ ... f1-future/

astracrazy
astracrazy
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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It wouldn't suprise me. I think both teams have been waiting for the other to jump first.

Although lets look at the facts. They just signed new sponsor deals at abu dabhi so who knows

axle
axle
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Here too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 343221.stm

Its easy for them to walk away, but economics is a cover.

F1 is being forced into a spec series. Where's the interest for major manufacturers?

I hope Renault stay but considering their last 3 years, the race fixing etc then I could imagine them walking too. They will stay as an engine supplier and the team will make a good prospect for Prodrive/Aston...but then again Aston have set up a German base so maybe Toyota would be an option for them...

There have been encouraging signs since the race fixing - new drivers, sponsors etc so it may be a restructuring/financing/long term we're selling at the end of 2010 sort of thing...
- Axle

Jersey Tom
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Economics probably aren't a cover.

For anyone involved in racing that's also in other markets (Renault.. Toyota.. Honda.. Bridgestone) there's a real cost to being in motorsport, especially F1. Sponsors don't cover all of it.

At the end of the day, you still have to run a successful business.

Question comes down to.. how much are you willing to bleed every year to stay in?
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

axle
axle
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Jersey Tom wrote:Economics probably aren't a cover.

For anyone involved in racing that's also in other markets (Renault.. Toyota.. Honda.. Bridgestone) there's a real cost to being in motorsport, especially F1. Sponsors don't cover all of it.

At the end of the day, you still have to run a successful business.

Question comes down to.. how much are you willing to bleed every year to stay in?
Exactly, if there is no progress beyond marketing then it has a short shelf life of interest.
- Axle

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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I think that Renault F1 have a weak case answering Mr. Goshn. They are supposed to improve the image of Renault and do this at no extra cost. They have not achieved this lately and the consequence will be a pull out of Renault sooner or later. It is just a question of how they think this is best managed in the least costly way.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Ian P.
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Yes F1 is first and foremost a business. No question.
I have difficulty with the assumption that a team can not be run at a break-even or profit level. Sir Frank would not have been in this for as long as he has if he lost money every year. Samr for McLaren.
These are two very successful teams at the top of the heap that are independant and in this for the long term.
It escapes me why it is a basic assumption that it needs to cost hundreds of millions. Maybe someone needs to check their ego at the door.
Personal motto... "Were it not for the bad.... I would have no luck at all."

Michiba
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Sure, it's a business, but you're putting pretty much all your capital into improving performance, so theoretically, you shouldn't be operating at a profit.

as for those two examples, Williams are relatively poorly funded so have had to take on a pay driver from toyota whic his quite a comprimise. As for mclaren, they've had MB backing for years now. Would be interesting to see how they go once MB vests more interest in brawn.

Richard
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Early reports show Renault are racing in 2010, which makes sense considering they signed Kubica last week.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 1388&FS=F1

I wonder if they've cut the budget ... did their long history in F1 with Alonso's double WDC support a view that it's a long game and the pendululum will one day swing back their way ... perhaps BMW, Toyota, & Honda dropping out gave them breathing space?

myurr
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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Michiba wrote:Sure, it's a business, but you're putting pretty much all your capital into improving performance, so theoretically, you shouldn't be operating at a profit.
Not at all true, and no successful business would follow that model for long. Take any other industry and you could be tempted into saying the same thing - they should be reinvesting ever last penny of profit in improving their products and offerings. But that doesn't make for a successful business, and the same is true for F1. You invest as little as you can get away with to reach your goals. If your goal is to win the F1 world championship then you invest just enough to build a car capable of doing so. Spend any more than that and you have a poor business model.
Michiba wrote: as for those two examples, Williams are relatively poorly funded so have had to take on a pay driver from toyota whic his quite a comprimise. As for mclaren, they've had MB backing for years now. Would be interesting to see how they go once MB vests more interest in brawn.
Williams used to be well funded and highly successful, but historical issues with engine supply and subsequent poor performance have diminished their star somewhat. However they are still very well funded for an independent and have historically turned a profit.

Likewise with McLaren - Ron Dennis and his team are amazingly good negotiators, and have done fantastically well out of Mercedes, but they have been well funded and successful for far longer than their MB deal. McLaren have always turned a profit, and I would expect them to continue to do so even if they part with Mercedes.

Whilst MB have served them well I would love to see them become a fully independent team like Ferrari and manufacture their own engines, and they appear to have the perfect opportunity to do so at the moment.

Michiba
Michiba
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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I was generalising a bit, but you do make valid points.

Sure, you don't need to spend every last penny of profit on improving performance. Perhaps this has been Williams strategy for the past few years. Do enough to stay a mid tier team whilst still getting half decent sponsorship. This way they reach their goal of staying in F1 (pure speculation btw, just using it as an example).

And I'm sure Maclaren will continue to be competetive without MB. I should have elaborated to say that it would be interesting to see how Macca go as a scuderia. In terms of finance, they would now have to spend money on developing their engine rather than getting money for using MB's.

deus1066
deus1066
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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They're going to make a decision before the end of the year:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 345394.stm

It would be a strange decision to spend the next few weeks and spend more money intensely developing a car only to quit F1... on the other hand, maybe they'll develop a car for next season and then sell the team as it may make it a more desirable purchase.

bazanaius
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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NB McLaren is an entire group of companies - the vast majority of which operate at a considerable profit. whether the F1 team is also making a profit is a question I don't know the answer to, but certainly McLaren's approach to this has been very different to Williams. I've always seen it as developing other bits of the business to pay for the F1 team, whereas Williams IS the F1 team :-)

ESPImperium
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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deus1066 wrote:They're going to make a decision before the end of the year:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 345394.stm

It would be a strange decision to spend the next few weeks and spend more money intensely developing a car only to quit F1... on the other hand, maybe they'll develop a car for next season and then sell the team as it may make it a more desirable purchase.
What i think is gonna happen is they are gonna announce that they are giving it one more year. Give the team a fair budget that they can compete on a compeditive level with Kubica and Glock, then review the situation year on year. After all they did just sign 2 new sponsors to the car on 3 year deals at Abu, i dont think they should if investment in the team is there.

This is only the start of the story im afraid, i think there could be as many as 3 more casualtys in the next few years.

lebesset
lebesset
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Re: Renault to follow Toyota?

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as I see it they want to sell as a going concern , staying in as an engine supplier
wonder if it is prodrive that they are talking to ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be