2025 McLaren F1 Team

[mwillems]

You might see the Mercedes advantage very slightly larger in the first year, on the basis that afterwards there are not likely (but could still be) any big surprises.

[FittingMechanics]

I find it ironic for example that McLaren found a better and more efficient way to cool the Mercedes PU than the Mercedes team itself in 2025. If the technical team is good enough, they can do the same with other things as well going forward.

Doesn't that just demonstrate why it's a disadvantage though? In the 4th year of an engine freeze they had a more advanced cooling system, because by that point they knew as much about the engine as Merc did and had time to design around it. But who had the more advanced PU-chassi integration in 2022 though? The zeropod is a testament to the sort of thing that only a works team could pull off.

I simply don't see why Mercedes would make their own life harder by giving McLaren nearly all the advantages of being a works team. That could easily be the difference between winning and finishing second, which is a big deal for Mercedes.

But you are making the assumption that McLaren cooling solution is better in 2025 because they had time to "design around it". Are we really thinking it takes a F1 team 3 years to understand the packaging of the engine?

To me, the 2025 cooling solution in McLaren has nothing to do with understanding the packaging. McLaren likely has a design advantage in that department, allowing them to have better tire temperature and engine cooling.

In any case, we don't have proof for either claim.

[AR3-GP]

You might see the Mercedes advantage very slightly larger in the first year, on the basis that afterwards there are not likely (but could still be) any big surprises.

I think that Mclaren could still end up ahead of Mercedes in 2026 but think of it this way: Being a customer isn't giving Mclaren any advantage over having a good exclusive supply. They currently have to build around both the FIA and Mercedes. Therefore, they could be even further ahead of wherever they stand now if they had an exclusive engine supply.

[FittingMechanics]

You might see the Mercedes advantage very slightly larger in the first year, on the basis that afterwards there are not likely (but could still be) any big surprises.

I think that Mclaren could still end up ahead of Mercedes in 2026 but think of it this way: Being a customer isn't giving Mclaren any advantage over having a good exclusive supply. They currently have to build around both the FIA and Mercedes. Therefore, they could be even further ahead of wherever they stand now if they had an exclusive engine supply.

They've tried it with Honda and got burned.

If the deal they have with Mercedes is a fair one (they give the data on packaging as early as possible), then the team is not really handicapped. This is especially true in 2026 because teams couldn't start to work on the cars until mid 2025 and the engines needed to be developed earlier than that. So by that criteria, all cars will be adapted to their power units and not vice versa.

[AR3-GP]

They've tried it with Honda and got burned.

If the deal they have with Mercedes is a fair one (they give the data on packaging as early as possible), then the team is not really handicapped. This is especially true in 2026 because teams couldn't start to work on the cars until mid 2025 and the engines needed to be developed earlier than that. So by that criteria, all cars will be adapted to their power units and not vice versa.

It's only hypothetical. The exclusive supply would be good (i.e not 2015)

[mwillems]

There are a lot of details under the carpet we are not aware of, for one is I think as per the concord agreement an engine manufacturer might be forced to provide engines to a team or something in that nature so for now is all talk and no show.

I think my point is that if he is saying that they will reduce supply by 1, then we are not a protected species, we also could be the team to be cut.

Mercedes could well say ‘let’s cut-off McLaren’ if they are being beaten by them, but they could also look at it as McLaren are their benchmark, if they are beating us then we know the issue is with the chassis, not the PU, so let’s keep them

Also, as far as I am aware, McLaren are the only Merc customer that has negotiated a special relationship with them that allows them a seat at the table, with input into the PU’s design, so that must surely signify Merc’s desire to do business with them

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

[AR3-GP]

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

This isn't really a revelation, is it? Mercedes is not a noble charity Were it not for the regulations changes in 2017, Mercedes would only give the customers detuned engines.

[FittingMechanics]

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

I've watched that interview and I don't remember him saying something that direct and obvious. But I could be wrong. But since they made obvious quotes about other statements and this one is an "explanation" I think he didn't say that.

Interviewer at one time asked if they are happy that McLaren had success with their engine and to me it looked like Hywel was about to say yes when Toto jumped in and shut it down and said that their (powertrains) only goal is to get Mercedes factory team to win.

I also remember him saying that McLaren was good for them to show them that the engine is good enough. I don't remember him saying they wouldn't supply them.

[mwillems]

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

This isn't really a revelation, is it? Mercedes is not a noble charity Were it not for the regulations changes in 2017, Mercedes would only give the customers detuned engines.

Lol Some on here though that we'd be safe if Merc drop 1 customer supply, which i countered. Now there is a direct quote so it should put that to bed.

[mwillems]

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

I've watched that interview and I don't remember him saying something that direct and obvious. But I could be wrong. But since they made obvious quotes about other statements and this one is an "explanation" I think he didn't say that.

Interviewer at one time asked if they are happy that McLaren had success with their engine and to me it looked like Hywel was about to say yes when Toto jumped in and shut it down and said that their (powertrains) only goal is to get Mercedes factory team to win.

I also remember him saying that McLaren was good for them to show them that the engine is good enough. I don't remember him saying they wouldn't supply them.

Do you have a link?

[Emag]

McLaren should try really hard to stay competitive in the new regulation cycle to try and convince their funders to invest in a new division to build their own power units. It’s not feasible to be a customer long-term if you want to remain a competitive force in the sport. You’re always limited somehow by your supplier.

They can still win of course, assuming regs remain like this, but if Mercedes decides they don’t want to supply them after 2030 anymore, then they will be forced to end up with a potentially weaker engine. You just lose laptime for nothing.

Unlike RedBull, McLaren can get more use out of a in-house engine because they got the automotive business that can use them too. So in a way, they get more from their investment than what RedBull gets from theirs.

[mwillems]

It was in my head to post that, but figured i wasnt going to start the latest "We should build engines or buy Riccardo" chat lol

[mwillems]

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

I've watched that interview and I don't remember him saying something that direct and obvious. But I could be wrong. But since they made obvious quotes about other statements and this one is an "explanation" I think he didn't say that.

Interviewer at one time asked if they are happy that McLaren had success with their engine and to me it looked like Hywel was about to say yes when Toto jumped in and shut it down and said that their (powertrains) only goal is to get Mercedes factory team to win.

I also remember him saying that McLaren was good for them to show them that the engine is good enough. I don't remember him saying they wouldn't supply them.

Don't sweat the link.

He said it on Sky Italia and was half laughing when he said it, so i don't think you can read either way.

None the less, we cant assume we won't be dropped if their engines give us help in a title battle with the works team.

In the meantime it keeps the Mercedes brand on the top step alongside us.

[FittingMechanics]

Just spotted this:

Wolff again admitted that had he known McLaren's level of competitiveness in the past two seasons, Mercedes "would not have supplied" the Woking team.

https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/merc ... post-2026/


So assuming that isn’t a made up quote, the threat of dropping Mclaren is very real.

I've watched that interview and I don't remember him saying something that direct and obvious. But I could be wrong. But since they made obvious quotes about other statements and this one is an "explanation" I think he didn't say that.

Interviewer at one time asked if they are happy that McLaren had success with their engine and to me it looked like Hywel was about to say yes when Toto jumped in and shut it down and said that their (powertrains) only goal is to get Mercedes factory team to win.

I also remember him saying that McLaren was good for them to show them that the engine is good enough. I don't remember him saying they wouldn't supply them.

Do you have a link?

This is the link, interesting watch. They talk about the new power units.

[mwillems]

I've watched that interview and I don't remember him saying something that direct and obvious. But I could be wrong. But since they made obvious quotes about other statements and this one is an "explanation" I think he didn't say that.

Interviewer at one time asked if they are happy that McLaren had success with their engine and to me it looked like Hywel was about to say yes when Toto jumped in and shut it down and said that their (powertrains) only goal is to get Mercedes factory team to win.

I also remember him saying that McLaren was good for them to show them that the engine is good enough. I don't remember him saying they wouldn't supply them.

Do you have a link?

This is the link, interesting watch. They talk about the new power units.

Good interview, but different interview, the comments I talk about were on Sky Italia.

Interestingly, it was noted on the other interview that when asked a similar question about how he feels about Mclaren winning the championships, Hywel was enthusiastic about the fact that Mclaren had done it with Mercedes but was interrupted by Toto, who said that Mercedes are there for Mercedes etc. In this interview, Hywel gives a very overlong and, overworked and precise answer to the same question and this time, it's all about the Factory lol

Interestingly he says that they "build it, put it in the Brackley car, at Brackley, make sure it fits right, and then the customers are invited to use it" with a smile that suggested they get what they are given.

Really setting the tone for: This is a Mercedes engine for Mercedes and everyone else has to work around that when we're ready. Not said, but heavily implied. So that seems to explain that relationship perfectly.