2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

[TeamKoolGreen]

But lets simplify this.

If all engines are 16:1 at ambient and then at working temperatures they are 16.2 or so with Mercedes at 17.4, are all these engines illegal? Are they ready to face the music if FIA has to measure temperatures (and all various sizes proscribed in the engine) at both ambient and working temperatures?

Are any engines legal at all temperatures in all dimensions? I highly doubt that.

Measuring compression ratio at working temperature invites you to try and get every other measurement (especially if you are slightly smaller) measured at working temperatures as well. This is opening a huge can of worms that I don't see FIA accepting. What I find much more realistic is that FIA maybe adds a change that makes this trick unviable (ban some materials, or ban a certain design) but that they keep that the measurement is done at ambient temperatures.

Indeed. The FIA need to clarify what they mean by ambient temperature first, is the ambient weather temperature or ambient engine operating temperature. If it is the former and they measure all engines hot CR, they will likely all be above 16:1, some by more than others.

Then they would need to prove that the one with the highest CR when hot, was above the rest for deliberate reasons.

They have made a real mess with this rule.

The mess only started because of this new "sustainable" fuel nonsense. 18:1 was a natural barrier. There is no desire to go higher than that. But since this new fuel is lower octane, they had to drop the compression ratio and now we this.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Either way, the FIA are not going to intervene at this time and Merc/RBR are free to run the engines they have developed.

I'll laugh when Audi and Cadillac are 2 seconds behind and are sick of getting whooped for years and then shut down their engine programs. Hey can we just buy Mercedes engines ? And they have nobody to blame but themselves for demanding these Frankenstein PU's. Just as Renault did going into 2014.

And Mercedes doesn't want more engine customers.

Everyone involved in these pathetic regulations deserves what they are going to get good and hard. And that includes F1 itself.

[De Wet]

Either way, the FIA are not going to intervene at this time and Merc/RBR are free to run the engines they have developed.

I'll laugh when Audi and Cadillac are 2 seconds behind and are sick of getting whooped for years and then shut down their engine programs. Hey can we just buy Mercedes engines ? And they have nobody to blame but themselves for demanding these Frankenstein PU's. Just as Renault did going into 2014.

And Mercedes doesn't want more engine customers.

Everyone involved in these pathetic regulations deserves what they are going to get good and hard. And that includes F1 itself.

[Chuckjr]

Merc is supplying no less than 4 teams. The FIA is not going to cripple half the field with a last min reg change because they f’ed up the rules with ambiguity. This will simply be 2014 all over again and Merc knows how to ride that pony, so they never fully show their power, and simply win most every race. Hopefully Red Bull has been sly enough to figure out this cunning stunt to make it a competitive season, unlike 2014. There won't be many complaints if there is a King George vs. Max championship while the Ferrari empire burns to the ground.

Hats off to Merc, looks like they did it again.

[hollus]

Everybody please breath.

R-U-M-O-R.

We don’t know if it is true, if true we don’t know how big, and if big, we don’t know what is done.

But journos love love convoluted “perhaps” stories, specially in the off season, when pages still need to be filled. It works on many, clearly.

As usual, remember what attracted you to this forum. Screaming cheaters, losers, corrupt and disgusting… That surely wasn’t it. Keep your critical brains engaged, please.
We’ll find out in due time.

[FDD]

Everybody please breath.

R-U-M-O-R.

We don’t know if it is true, if true we don’t know how big, and if big, we don’t know what is done.

But journos love love convoluted “perhaps” stories, specially in the off season, when pages still need to be filled. It works on many, clearly.

As usual, remember what attracted you to this forum. Screaming cheaters, losers, corrupt and disgusting… That surely wasn’t it. Keep your critical brains engaged, please.
We’ll find out in due time.

[AR3-GP]

Would it be possible to close or reduce the size of the pre-chamber?

[saviour stivala]

Would it be possible to close or reduce the size of the pre-chamber?

https://i.postimg.cc/V67GNSs6/image.png

The pre-chamber used in F1 ICE is typically 3% of the main combustion chamber clearance at T.D.C. It encloses the the spark-plug and not the injector. The pre-chamber receives 2 - 5% of total fuel injected.

[Sylv1]

According to all these rumors, Mercedes would have managed to achieve a ratio of 18:1.

So this means that they manage to measure it???
In this case, why can't the FIA ​​succeed?

[bauc]

Everybody please breath.

R-U-M-O-R.

We don’t know if it is true, if true we don’t know how big, and if big, we don’t know what is done.

But journos love love convoluted “perhaps” stories, specially in the off season, when pages still need to be filled. It works on many, clearly.

As usual, remember what attracted you to this forum. Screaming cheaters, losers, corrupt and disgusting… That surely wasn’t it. Keep your critical brains engaged, please.
We’ll find out in due time.

This is not a rummor anymore as Mercedes published an official statement, saying the FIA was informed of its design, all along, thus indirectly confirming this?

[hollus]

18:1 - ish for sure is a rumor. And that the design has anything like what is implied, is a rumor.

Anyways, my point was not to stop debating the options and possibilities, that rocks, but to stop the moral pitchforks. It might be bloody murder, or it might be a scratch, we'll see.

[TeamKoolGreen]

Would it be possible to close or reduce the size of the pre-chamber?

We are supposedly under a PU cost cap this time around. So I dunno how Merc could have gone so exotic while keeping it within the cost cap. They were probably working on the combustion chamber in 2022.

With the kinds of forces involved inside the chamber, I really don't get how they are doing this. And maybe it will introduce some reliability issues.

(for the record I support these cost cap rules)

[Badger]

Would it be possible to close or reduce the size of the pre-chamber?

We are supposedly under a PU cost cap this time around. So I dunno how Merc could have gone so exotic while keeping it within the cost cap. They were probably working on the combustion chamber in 2022.

With the kinds of forces involved inside the chamber, I really don't get how they are doing this. And maybe it will introduce some reliability issues.

(for the record I support these cost cap rules)

The PU cost cap is set at around $100 million per year, that is hardly a prohibitive budget to innovate with, especially when you've had 3-4 years. Quite frankly it would be very disappointing if nothing innovative was brought.

[bluechris]

Would it be possible to close or reduce the size of the pre-chamber?

We are supposedly under a PU cost cap this time around. So I dunno how Merc could have gone so exotic while keeping it within the cost cap. They were probably working on the combustion chamber in 2022.

With the kinds of forces involved inside the chamber, I really don't get how they are doing this. And maybe it will introduce some reliability issues.

(for the record I support these cost cap rules)

The PU cost cap is set at around $100 million per year, that is hardly a prohibitive budget to innovate with, especially when you've had 3-4 years. Quite frankly it would be very disappointing if nothing innovative was brought.

As long it is from MB it is innovation i suppose.

[FDD]

Everybody please breath.

R-U-M-O-R.

We don’t know if it is true, if true we don’t know how big, and if big, we don’t know what is done.

But journos love love convoluted “perhaps” stories, specially in the off season, when pages still need to be filled. It works on many, clearly.

As usual, remember what attracted you to this forum. Screaming cheaters, losers, corrupt and disgusting… That surely wasn’t it. Keep your critical brains engaged, please.
We’ll find out in due time.

This is not a rummor anymore as Mercedes published an official statement, saying the FIA was informed of its design, all along, thus indirectly confirming this?

The first part is absolutely right.
But, we do not know what they inform FIA regarding their design and possible gains.
On the other side we also have G. Anderson statement, clearly saying that piston expanding of 0,3mm needed to achieve 18:1 compression ratio, it's not possible with the materials allowed.
So, we can just sit and wait