2025 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 05 - 07

[Mosin123]

The stats don't support that opinion. He barely beat his teammate in the qualy head-to-head (13 NOR vs 11 PIA). And that's with PIA completely checking out in the later part of the season as we know. MCL39 is how he beat VER to the title.

I dont get this comment, OP is a very highly rated driver on the grid, a future champion...... Lando barely beat his highly talented, highly rated teammate? cause he has a good team mate?

How can you even use that as an attempt to beat Lando down with, its hilarious.

Ok, let me explain it to you again.

The comment I responded to was claiming that Norris beat Verstappen to the WDC specifically because he were so "blisteringly fast" in qualifying (implying NOR to be one of the best qualifiers on the grid as obliviously any F1 driver is "fast").

If that were true, we would expect him to have convincingly beaten his team mate in qualy head-to-head over the season, but that is not the case. The facts show that it was very even between the two.

Now you came in claiming that Piastri too must therefore be a "blisteringly fast" qualifier, one of the best on the grid this season. We've all seen though how he was underperforming in the second half of the season. Therefore I don't see how it can be taken as an impressive achievement to prove Norris' claimed top class qualifying skills that he beat a struggling PIA 13/11 over the season. I can see how this might be subjective though if you rate a guy who qualified an average 4th over the second half of the season in the fastest car on the grid to be one of the most impressive qualifying performances of the season.

I never said blistering fast, just highly talented, Think you are forgetting that OP is in only his 3rd season in f1, he finished just 13 points behind a highly rated Lando, and just 11 points behind the current goat tag driver on the gird?. I would say that is impressive, Lando just beat the goat....

Lando does have Max's red mist moment to thank for the title, but the best driver over the season won.

[aMessageToCharlie]

I dont get this comment, OP is a very highly rated driver on the grid, a future champion...... Lando barely beat his highly talented, highly rated teammate? cause he has a good team mate?

How can you even use that as an attempt to beat Lando down with, its hilarious.

Ok, let me explain it to you again.

The comment I responded to was claiming that Norris beat Verstappen to the WDC specifically because he were so "blisteringly fast" in qualifying (implying NOR to be one of the best qualifiers on the grid as obliviously any F1 driver is "fast").

If that were true, we would expect him to have convincingly beaten his team mate in qualy head-to-head over the season, but that is not the case. The facts show that it was very even between the two.

Now you came in claiming that Piastri too must therefore be a "blisteringly fast" qualifier, one of the best on the grid this season. We've all seen though how he was underperforming in the second half of the season. Therefore I don't see how it can be taken as an impressive achievement to prove Norris' claimed top class qualifying skills that he beat a struggling PIA 13/11 over the season. I can see how this might be subjective though if you rate a guy who qualified an average 4th over the second half of the season in the fastest car on the grid to be one of the most impressive qualifying performances of the season.

I never said blistering fast, just highly talented,

Then you're arguing beside the point as I already explained to you that I was replying to a post that said precisely that. And it was specifically about qualifying.

But feel free to elaborate with some stats on your new argument "the best driver over the season won" since I and most other people who followed F1 this season disagree.

[venkyhere]

but the best driver over the season won.

best driver in the best car won.
The best driver (18 other drivers and even Norris himself will agree) finished 2nd because of an inconsistent car, Norris is a superb driver, but not yet in the same category as Verstappen.
Why do you find it so hard to tell the truth ?
Even you know who the best driver is, however, something prevents you from accepting it.

[Ferry]

There's no official definition of "best". It's the whole package that brings you WDC. Being in the right car/team is a part of that, in a broader sense. Alonso as a good example. Brilliant driving skills, but unlucky or "unlucky" when it comes to being in the right car at the right time.

[Mosin123]

but the best driver over the season won.

best driver in the best car won.
The best driver (18 other drivers and even Norris himself will agree) finished 2nd because of an inconsistent car, Norris is a superb driver, but not yet in the same category as Verstappen.
Why do you find it so hard to tell the truth ?
Even you know who the best driver is, however, something prevents you from accepting it.

As is the same every year...... Best car best driver wins......
Lando is champion, By the very definition of the word, he was the best driver over the season....
Why is it so hard for you to accept?

Max is not champion because of him self, no amount of excuses can change his own behavior. He had the car to win as shown by the small points gap he had at the end of the final race.

[Mosin123]

Ok, let me explain it to you again.

The comment I responded to was claiming that Norris beat Verstappen to the WDC specifically because he were so "blisteringly fast" in qualifying (implying NOR to be one of the best qualifiers on the grid as obliviously any F1 driver is "fast").

If that were true, we would expect him to have convincingly beaten his team mate in qualy head-to-head over the season, but that is not the case. The facts show that it was very even between the two.

Now you came in claiming that Piastri too must therefore be a "blisteringly fast" qualifier, one of the best on the grid this season. We've all seen though how he was underperforming in the second half of the season. Therefore I don't see how it can be taken as an impressive achievement to prove Norris' claimed top class qualifying skills that he beat a struggling PIA 13/11 over the season. I can see how this might be subjective though if you rate a guy who qualified an average 4th over the second half of the season in the fastest car on the grid to be one of the most impressive qualifying performances of the season.

I never said blistering fast, just highly talented,

Then you're arguing beside the point as I already explained to you that I was replying to a post that said precisely that. And it was specifically about qualifying.

But feel free to elaborate with some stats on your new argument "the best driver over the season won" since I and most other people who followed F1 this season disagree.

Stats? what stats? I didnt say any. you tried to bring stats to a quality argument like its some comparison.

OP / Lando are high quality drivers, both considered top quality drivers, one is only in his 3rd season, its why Mclaren managed to win both titles, Not doing it with 2 Yuki's driving for them that is for sure.

That is 100 % different to Redbulls approach in which they couldnt care about the constructors, its just a bonus, they just want Max to win because its so much better from an advertising point of view. They wouldnt even put a 2nd car on track if regulations didnt force them, Every resource possible is dedicated to Max winning.

[venkyhere]

Max is not champion because of him self, no amount of excuses can change his own behavior. He had the car to win as shown by the small points gap he had at the end of the final race.

No he didn't. Atleast post-Singapore, he should never have been in the title fight at all. McLaren drivers (mostly Piastri) and team weren't 'upto their usual standard' post Singapore, and allowed Max back into the fight. If you really think the Redbull was a championship winning car, you are terribly mistaken. It was 'peaky' and setting it up for a partcular track was a lottery exercise.

[aMessageToCharlie]

Lando is champion, By the very definition of the word, he was the best driver over the season....
Why is it so hard for you to accept?

Stats? what stats? I didnt say any. you tried to bring stats to a quality argument like its some comparison.

LOL, I'm out of this.

[hollus]

My driver is better than yours…

Wrong forum!

[Matt-A]

It doesnt really say that anywhere in the rules and indeed the preamble for this "Genreal Chat" forum specifically states: "Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One."

[epo]

My driver is better than yours…

Wrong forum!

My driver is Max and he is better yes, wrong logic mate.

[Mosin123]

Max is not champion because of him self, no amount of excuses can change his own behavior. He had the car to win as shown by the small points gap he had at the end of the final race.

No he didn't. Atleast post-Singapore, he should never have been in the title fight at all. McLaren drivers (mostly Piastri) and team weren't 'upto their usual standard' post Singapore, and allowed Max back into the fight. If you really think the Redbull was a championship winning car, you are terribly mistaken. It was 'peaky' and setting it up for a partcular track was a lottery exercise.

I seem to remember a certain Mclaren team switching focus towards next seasons car in July i believe? While Redbull was bring upgrades still at Singapore ( Hmm seems to perfectly fit with Max's uplift in performance............ Hmmmmmmmmm......... )
Redbull totally thought they was in the fight, if they didnt think so, they would have written off the season and pushed for next years car before Mclaren all but wrapped up the constructors......

But then, we all know Redbulls priority is the drivers championship.