Lotus T127 Cosworth

[Astro1]

Just noticed they have an upward-turned rear crush structure. You can see it in the off camber foto on page 10 when you enlarge.

[PlatinumZealot]

Somebody said in this very same thread that Lotus might just be establishing some baseline with it. Looks like it to me.. I would definitely do that to save time and money if I were Lotus.

[czt]

I think this is seriously stupid. I mean both car is designed by the same person, and most engineer has their own philosophy/style, of course the cars they design are gonna be similar.

I suspect you are unaware of how little influence someone like Gascoyne will actually have in the development of a car. His role will be largely managerial, dealing with fundamental development process decisions (ie, where do we concentrate resource - wind tunnel or cfd?) and defining and managing budgets etc. I doubt someone in his position has drawn a part for years.

[czt]

why would you copy a car that came last?
when i was in school i didn't copy my answers from the inbred kid.
i copied from the clever one.
also why copy from a car that does not use your engine.
last time i checked that was a fairly major component of a F1 car

i just see this a pointless never ending F1 crap.
the teams should have broken away when they had a chance.

Your argument doesn't stand up.

If you hadn't done your homework, and the inbred kid was the only person stupid enough to leave their exercise books lying around of course your would be copying from him - you don't have access to any other info.

The fact that the Lotus will run a different engine is virtually irrelevant. The rules pretty much dictate the size of an engine with regard to packaging a wind tunnel model (min crank height is specced, and I believe bore spacing too - doesn't leave so much scope...)

I simply don't believe someone could have replicated the front wing (for example) as has been simply by cribbing from a few photos. The geometry is too similar to have been recreated by eye.

[timbo]

The geometry is too similar to have been recreated by eye.

But you judge the similarity by eye, aren't you?

[czt]

The geometry is too similar to have been recreated by eye.

But you judge the similarity by eye, aren't you?

Fair point, however its one thing to see that two items are similar and another to be able to recreate it accurately in a cad model. Another way to highlight just how similar they are would be to compare the FI and Lotus front wings to the rest of the grid. When you start exploring the details of something like a front wing assembly it really becomes apparent just how similar these two are.

[PlatinumZealot]

You can do it from photograps and get it pretty accuarate. I have done this before (not with cars) but other objects.

But what is interesting is that this car is the force India VJM02 wind tunnel model! I can't find the article now, but Force India Left their model at that Wind tunnel and since they have unpaid depts to that company they could not retrieve the model. Lotus now, came and saw the model just lying there and they just started doing tests on it in the wind tunnel.

[CMSMJ1]

<<SNIP>>

But what is interesting is that this car is the force India VJM02 wind tunnel model! I can't find the article now, but Force India Left their model at that Wind tunnel and since they have unpaid depts to that company they could not retrieve the model. Lotus now, came and saw the model just lying there and they just started doing tests on it in the wind tunnel.

Come on man..stop talking rubbish.

If you were going to spend a lot of money on a windtunnel hire then why would you waste time running a 2009 model? Why would you also use a car that was poor?
If you happened to already have a former employee (MG) then why put yourself open to spurious internet opinions?

Am not having a dig at you mate - but your post is opinion, no fact and no evidence and just does ont stand up.

[czt]

Come on man..stop talking rubbish.

If you were going to spend a lot of money on a windtunnel hire then why would you waste time running a 2009 model? Why would you also use a car that was poor?
If you happened to already have a former employee (MG) then why put yourself open to spurious internet opinions?

Am not having a dig at you mate - but your post is opinion, no fact and no evidence and just does ont stand up.

Because to get the model to the state shown in the pics would take something like 6-8 months development. It would take in the region of 6-8 weeks to build a basic tunnel model (working hard!) - then you have to begin development. You can't just chuck things like endplate vanes & winglets, and bargeboards on a car and expect them to work straight away.

Regarding the copying by eye - yes you could produce a reasonable approximation of something copying by eye, but given that something as minor as a loose bit of tape can ruin the data coming from a wind tunnel model you'd struggle to replicate anything meaningful by this means.

[PlatinumZealot]

<<SNIP>>

But what is interesting is that this car is the force India VJM02 wind tunnel model! I can't find the article now, but Force India Left their model at that Wind tunnel and since they have unpaid depts to that company they could not retrieve the model. Lotus now, came and saw the model just lying there and they just started doing tests on it in the wind tunnel.

Come on man..stop talking rubbish.

If you were going to spend a lot of money on a windtunnel hire then why would you waste time running a 2009 model? Why would you also use a car that was poor?
If you happened to already have a former employee (MG) then why put yourself open to spurious internet opinions?

Am not having a dig at you mate - but your post is opinion, no fact and no evidence and just does ont stand up.

Wait here it is.. my memory wasn't perfect but close enough..

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2630.shtml

When the new Lotus F1 team released pictures of its 2010 car's wind tunnel model in mid-October, people at Force India took a second look at what they saw.

"The as yet undesignated model is the product of the recent collaboration between Lotus F1 Racing Chief Technical Officer Mike Gascoyne and the team's technical partners, and represents an important step in the team's preparations for next season," the Malaysian outfit's press release explained.

However, Force India believe certain portions of the car hold an uncanny resemblance with their current VJM02 racer.

Adding to their suspicion is the fact that former technical chief Mike Gascoyne now works for Lotus, and his team is now using the same Italy-based Aerolab/Fondtech wind tunnel facilities previously used by Force India.


When Force India ceased working at the site, some equipment – including a model and tyres – were not recuperated.

Gascoyne played down the whole affair, explaining that the Lotus wind tunnel model was designed by Fondtech and takes into account the requirements of the 2010 season such as a larger fuel tank in addition to several Lotus-designed components.

However, speaking to Autosport, he acknowledged that "The Fondmetal guys put some generic bodywork" on the current Lotus model in order to conduct wind tunnel testing.

Gascoyne went on to suggest that if Force India decide to pursue the matter, it should be taken up with his team's sub-contractor Fondtech, and not directly with Lotus.

I have a hunch that the generic bodywork was taken from the VJM02 model that was left over there.

[Mystery Steve]

Per request:



Yeah, I know it's not technically "arm" chair aerodynamics, but SolidWorks FloXpress is being touchy with imported geometry at the moment. I'll work on finding some models that work, and I'll probably get some animated images as well. Will hopefully update soon.

[gibells]

Per request:



Yeah, I know it's not technically "arm" chair aerodynamics, but SolidWorks FloXpress is being touchy with imported geometry at the moment. I'll work on finding some models that work, and I'll probably get some animated images as well. Will hopefully update soon.

=D> High Downforce config?

[Richard]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2630.shtml

However, speaking to Autosport, he acknowledged that "The Fondmetal guys put some generic bodywork" on the current Lotus model in order to conduct wind tunnel testing.

Good find. It also confirms my thoughts about the "workshop". It's not the Lotus factory, the photos must have been taken in the Fondtech building.

[Scotracer]

Per request:



Yeah, I know it's not technically "arm" chair aerodynamics, but SolidWorks FloXpress is being touchy with imported geometry at the moment. I'll work on finding some models that work, and I'll probably get some animated images as well. Will hopefully update soon.

=D> High Downforce config?

Naa, that's medium - it's missing the gurney flap

[kilcoo316]

Per request:



Yeah, I know it's not technically "arm" chair aerodynamics, but SolidWorks FloXpress is being touchy with imported geometry at the moment. I'll work on finding some models that work, and I'll probably get some animated images as well. Will hopefully update soon.

The gap between 1st and 2nd elements is too big and the camber isn't enough.


You'll get too much drag with that