2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[BassVirolla]

At 17s, is that charging at a standing start?

How would it charge? It can only charge if the rear axle is rotating.

Is this due to regulations or a physical mechanism?

None. As Wuzak stated, the ruleset says how to do it.

[Stu]

C5.2.12 During a standing start from the grid the MGU-K may only be used once the car has reached 50 km/h.

[Used = deploying?]

C5.2.19 When the car is stationary on the grid prior to a standing start the MGU-K torque may only be negative (i.e. charging the ES) except for torque requested by an MGU-K active damping strategy whose sole purpose is to protect the MGU-K Mechanical Transmission.

This question about the MGUK I have also a long time in my head (without an answer).

With that exact wording I would also make the assumption that it is permissible to use the GU-K part of the system on the grid before the car moves to charge the energy store, once the car has moved (lights out) it is then only permissible to use the MU-K part of the system once 50km/h has been reached.
I would presume it is worded like this purposely to avoid the possibility of using the MGU-K as a system to enable the function of traction control through the MGU-K.

Quite how the FIA plan to monitor this live across a grid of 22 cars is another matter…

[wuzak]

Why would the clutch come into play? It should be disengaged.

Not before the car has reached 50 km/h. Only than can the MGU-K be 'USED'.
If it is fully disengaged, the start will be slow due to the time needed to engage the clutch.

It's why the teams take every opportunity to do practice starts on a weekend - to determine the throttle position, rpm (ie power) and the clutch bite point for the best possible launch at the start of the race.

If the power that can be used at launch is 100kW, the ICE could make its maximum power and the MGUK would recover the difference.

Only when the car has reached 50 km/h can the MGU-K be ''USED''.

It may be interpreted either way, IMO.

No doubt that someone has asked for clarification already.

Maybe the term "prior" is just as important. As in, it can be done before a start, but not during a start.

[Tommy Cookers]

Tombazis said a while ago that the peak would be about 1,100hp, which would mean 470kW.....

... The 2026 ICE power is reduced to approximately 400kw/546hp. Electric power (MGU-K) is increased to 350kw/470hp, total power roughly 1100hp (combined power)....

400 KW combined with 350 KW is roughly 1000 hp (combined power) not roughly 1100 hp (combined power)

[johnnycesup]

C5.2.12 During a standing start from the grid the MGU-K may only be used once the car has reached 50 km/h.

[Used = deploying?]

C5.2.19 When the car is stationary on the grid prior to a standing start the MGU-K torque may only be negative (i.e. charging the ES) except for torque requested by an MGU-K active damping strategy whose sole purpose is to protect the MGU-K Mechanical Transmission.

This question about the MGUK I have also a long time in my head (without an answer).

With that exact wording I would also make the assumption that it is permissible to use the GU-K part of the system on the grid before the car moves to charge the energy store, once the car has moved (lights out) it is then only permissible to use the MU-K part of the system once 50km/h has been reached.
I would presume it is worded like this purposely to avoid the possibility of using the MGU-K as a system to enable the function of traction control through the MGU-K.

Quite how the FIA plan to monitor this live across a grid of 22 cars is another matter…

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it, and with some cooling from airflow into the radiators.

[Tommy Cookers]

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it ....

ok, but what about charging during pitstops ?

[johnnycesup]

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it ....

ok, but what about charging during pitstops ?

Sheesh, for 3 seconds, while someone is changing the rear wheels? Man, if I'm the FIA I'm banning it as soon as anyone tries to do somthing stupid like that.

Besides, you can do it in the fastlane without any restriction I would think.

[chipengineer]

This question about the MGUK I have also a long time in my head (without an answer).

With that exact wording I would also make the assumption that it is permissible to use the GU-K part of the system on the grid before the car moves to charge the energy store, once the car has moved (lights out) it is then only permissible to use the MU-K part of the system once 50km/h has been reached.
I would presume it is worded like this purposely to avoid the possibility of using the MGU-K as a system to enable the function of traction control through the MGU-K.

Quite how the FIA plan to monitor this live across a grid of 22 cars is another matter…

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it, and with some cooling from airflow into the radiators.

Maybe to optimize the battery temperature. It might cool more than is desired since the last braking opportunity.

[Farnborough]

This question about the MGUK I have also a long time in my head (without an answer).

With that exact wording I would also make the assumption that it is permissible to use the GU-K part of the system on the grid before the car moves to charge the energy store, once the car has moved (lights out) it is then only permissible to use the MU-K part of the system once 50km/h has been reached.
I would presume it is worded like this purposely to avoid the possibility of using the MGU-K as a system to enable the function of traction control through the MGU-K.

Quite how the FIA plan to monitor this live across a grid of 22 cars is another matter…

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it, and with some cooling from airflow into the radiators.

There's potential (if it can be reconciled with regulations) to run the ICE against the generator as anti-lag to spool up the turbo immediately before clutch release at start, if there's storage capacity to do such.

Example of arrival at grid with % depleted battery target, then to run against generator in final seconds of 5 red lights to spool turbo prior to traction need.

[johnnycesup]

With that exact wording I would also make the assumption that it is permissible to use the GU-K part of the system on the grid before the car moves to charge the energy store, once the car has moved (lights out) it is then only permissible to use the MU-K part of the system once 50km/h has been reached.
I would presume it is worded like this purposely to avoid the possibility of using the MGU-K as a system to enable the function of traction control through the MGU-K.

Quite how the FIA plan to monitor this live across a grid of 22 cars is another matter…

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it, and with some cooling from airflow into the radiators.

There's potential (if it can be reconciled with regulations) to run the ICE against the generator as anti-lag to spool up the turbo immediately before clutch release at start, if there's storage capacity to do such.

Example of arrival at grid with % depleted battery target, then to run against generator in final seconds of 5 red lights to spool turbo prior to traction need.

OK, that was a good suggestion. Someone who knows engines better might contradict me, but isn't that little controlled revving the drivers apply while the lights are turning on enough to spool up the turbo and, if not, could that predetermined rpm be adjusted to achieve it?

[mzso]

Clutch slipping.

Why would the clutch come into play? It should be disengaged.

If it is fully disengaged, the start will be slow due to the time needed to engage the clutch.

It's why the teams take every opportunity to do practice starts on a weekend - to determine the throttle position, rpm (ie power) and the clutch bite point for the best possible launch at the start of the race.

If the power that can be used at launch is 100kW, the ICE could make its maximum power and the MGUK would recover the difference.

It only needs to be engaged when actually starting, not waiting on the grid. Though I fail to see the need for so much recovery. On a slow warm-up lap they could harvest constantly.

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it, and with some cooling from airflow into the radiators.

Ah, you already made this point

[mzso]

It may be interpreted either way, IMO.

I think the wording is crystal clear. No using the K between starting and 50 km/h. But charging before start is fine.

Maybe to optimize the battery temperature. It might cool more than is desired since the last braking opportunity.

Lithium batteries don't need warming to work normally. Not as long as they don't race in freezing temperatures.

There's potential (if it can be reconciled with regulations) to run the ICE against the generator as anti-lag to spool up the turbo immediately before clutch release at start, if there's storage capacity to do such.

Example of arrival at grid with % depleted battery target, then to run against generator in final seconds of 5 red lights to spool turbo prior to traction need.

This is more interesting. However that might be hard to orchestrate, since the time to start is variable, and if the charge is fully I don't thin there's a practical, or legal way to run the K and use up the electricity.
Question is whether that power is needed below 50 k/mh at all. After that you have the K to fill in lag.

[Farnborough]

Now why would anyone need to charge the battery with the car stationary before the start? You have an entire formation lap to do it, and with some cooling from airflow into the radiators.

There's potential (if it can be reconciled with regulations) to run the ICE against the generator as anti-lag to spool up the turbo immediately before clutch release at start, if there's storage capacity to do such.

Example of arrival at grid with % depleted battery target, then to run against generator in final seconds of 5 red lights to spool turbo prior to traction need.

OK, that was a good suggestion. Someone who knows engines better might contradict me, but isn't that little controlled revving the drivers apply while the lights are turning on enough to spool up the turbo and, if not, could that predetermined rpm be adjusted to achieve it?

They ordinarily don't make decent boost (turbine torque) until the ICE is put under load, free revving doesn't match that scenario, in my understanding.

Interested to hear other's view on topic.

[mzso]

dupe

[Farnborough]

It may be interpreted either way, IMO.

I think the wording is crystal clear. No using the K between starting and 50 km/h. But charging before start is fine.

Maybe to optimize the battery temperature. It might cool more than is desired since the last braking opportunity.

Lithium batteries don't need warming to work normally. Not as long as they don't race in freezing temperatures.

There's potential (if it can be reconciled with regulations) to run the ICE against the generator as anti-lag to spool up the turbo immediately before clutch release at start, if there's storage capacity to do such.

Example of arrival at grid with % depleted battery target, then to run against generator in final seconds of 5 red lights to spool turbo prior to traction need.

This is more interesting. However that might be hard to orchestrate, since the time to start is variable, and if the charge is fully I don't thin there's a practical, or legal way to run the K and use up the electricity.
Question is whether that power is needed below 50 k/mh at all. After that you have the K to fill in lag.

I was thinking more of, hypothetical scenario of target 75% E storage through formation lap, wait for start of 5 red light sequence (always fixed duration, from variable start in time) run ICE against "brake" generator, with output into E store to generate boost.

One if the controlling aspect of boost is that under no load, a ICE will require small throttle opening to say reach and maintain 7000 ram ...... as opposed to against a brake, at which it could potentially have the throttle at virtually full open, which will build maximum boost.