Why is KERS restricted?

[Mystery Steve]

How about removing both the restriction and the on/off button from the steering wheel? Instead, leave it to the engineers to optimize the power generation and storage how they see fit, and have them integrate the power usage with the drive train via the throttle/brake/ECU/control systems. This could make KERS an actual hybrid technology that might be able to be implemented in production cars.

[mx_tifoso]

... leave it to the engineers to optimize the power generation and storage how they see fit, and have them integrate the power usage with the drive train via the throttle/brake/ECU/control systems..

This would remove the drivers ability to decide when to use the extra power, as currently they decide whether to use it for extra acceleration in either lone or overtaking situations.

[autogyro]

... leave it to the engineers to optimize the power generation and storage how they see fit, and have them integrate the power usage with the drive train via the throttle/brake/ECU/control systems..

This would remove the drivers ability to decide when to use the extra power, as currently they decide whether to use it for extra acceleration in either lone or overtaking situations.

Using the Kers energy from store at all times and if the Kers regulations had developed as planned by the FIA, then the fuel saved would have negated the need for an increase in wheelbase of 12cm and kick started a sensible development direction in reducing fuel use.

Fota of course destroyed any chance of this and forced F1 to continue being viewed by the world public as a wasteful polluting indulgence.

[ISLAMATRON]

Kers can harvest energy during any off power condition, it depends on how it is configured. It is not brake dominated.
The cars are not accelerating all the time and any time other than this in theory becomes available for harvesting.
Depends on the fuel usage trade off.

The technical regs require that KERS was only charged under braking.

Maybe they run 640kJ max cap batteries because the batteries dont like to repeatedly get run below 37.5% capacity?

How about removing both the restriction and the on/off button from the steering wheel? Instead, leave it to the engineers to optimize the power generation and storage how they see fit, and have them integrate the power usage with the drive train via the throttle/brake/ECU/control systems. This could make KERS an actual hybrid technology that might be able to be implemented in production cars.

I believe that is how it is required to be done in the Le mans series... at least that is how the Ginetta Zytek was required to run theirs. But it does take it totally out of the hands of the driver... there should still be a button for those special occasions

[xpensive]

Using the Kers energy from store at all times and if the Kers regulations had developed as planned by the FIA, then the fuel saved would have negated the need for an increase in wheelbase of 12cm and kick started a sensible development direction in reducing fuel use.

I would be surprised if I am the only one on F1T who are looking forward for your calculations to support that statement?

[autogyro]

Using the Kers energy from store at all times and if the Kers regulations had developed as planned by the FIA, then the fuel saved would have negated the need for an increase in wheelbase of 12cm and kick started a sensible development direction in reducing fuel use.

I would be surprised if I am the only one on F1T who are looking forward for your calculations to support that statement?

You give me the F1 car and I will prove the figures.

[xpensive]

So, first you make the statement, then you prove the figures? Interesting approach that, are you a politician or something?

[autogyro]

So, first you make the statement, then you prove the figures? Interesting approach that, are you a politician or something?

There is nothing to prove with figures. We are discusing regulations that do not exist and Kers systems no longer in use with restricted charge and discharge levels and potentials not made public.

And Islamatron, the F1 regulations for Kers state 'under braking', they do not specify what kind of braking. Front wheel brakes, rear wheel brakes, engine braking, gearbox braking, aerodynamic braking? Take your choice.

[xpensive]

So, first you make the statement, then you prove the figures? Interesting approach that, are you a politician or something?

There is nothing to prove with figures. We are discusing regulations that do not exist and Kers systems no longer in use with restricted charge and discharge levels and potentials not made public.

Do'h! I've been autogyro'd...

[bettonracing]

Do'h! I've been autogyro'd...

LOL! Now I'm going to have to airdry my keyboard!

Regards,
H. Kurt Betton

P.S. My apologies for writing a post that adds no value to this thread.

[riff_raff]

autogyro,

"they do not specify what kind of braking. Front wheel brakes, rear wheel brakes, engine braking, gearbox braking, aerodynamic braking?"

Conventional wheel (friction) brakes, and compression braking through the engine, are the only braking devices permitted in F1. There are no moveable aero surfaces permitted, so aero braking would be illegal. And since only two wheels may be driven, a KERS device that drives the fronts while the engine drives the rears, would also be illegal.

"F1 2009 regulation 5.2.2 & 5.2.3 for KERS:
5.2.2 With the exception of one fully charged KERS, the total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car
must not exceed 300kJ. Any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.
5.2.3 The maximum power, in or out, of any KERS must not exceed 60kW.
Energy released from the KERS may not exceed 400kJ in any one lap.
Measurements will be taken at the connection to the rear wheel drivetrain.

" F1 2009 regulations 9.1 Transmission types :
No transmission system may permit more than two wheels to be driven.

Also, I'm still waiting to see details of your "shift energy recovery device".

Regards,
Terry

[xpensive]

Please Terry, do you see any reason for pesting this constructive thread with the same bickering as "A's transmission..."?

What I mean to say is, you will never get a straight answer from certain individuals anyway.

[riff_raff]

xpensive,

Strangely, in some ways I kind of enjoy the "anonymous" bickering.

But feel free to ignore it yourself.

Best regards,
Terry

[machin]

I think AutoGyro meant that the wings are effectively "braking" the car at all times due to the drag... the same can be said for the engine every time you come off the throttle so what he was suggesting is that the term "under braking" could be applied to an F1 car at all times; its always being subjected to resistive forces.... Its just that sometimes (before a corner) the driver makes the car brake more by pressing the brake peddle.....

Its just one way of reading the rules....

[Richard]

And Islamatron, the F1 regulations for Kers state 'under braking', they do not specify what kind of braking. Front wheel brakes, rear wheel brakes, engine braking, gearbox braking, aerodynamic braking? Take your choice.

Quote the rules autogyro ..... or stop throwing out chaff, its tiresome.