2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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organic
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Merc making a lot of noise now.. I wonder if FIA is about to clamp down

Hoffman900
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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organic wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 15:42
Merc making a lot of noise now.. I wonder if FIA is about to clamp down
Some of one, some of the other, IMO. Merc probably pushed the boundaries but is “tech shed legal”, and Binnotto is probably trying to save face knowing their program is down.

At the end of the day it’s politics and they’re speaking to their shareholders as much as it is to us.

gearboxtrouble
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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organic wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 15:42
Merc making a lot of noise now.. I wonder if FIA is about to clamp down
How would they do that? Would they need a majority of the teams to support? If so there are 6 teams running engines that use this to some degree.

Badger
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Full Wolff quote: https://www.planetf1.com/news/toto-wol ... e-response
“I think we need to have more work done at that stage, as when it comes to the engine question, I just don’t understand that some teams concentrate more on the others and keep arguing a case that is very clear and transparent.

“Communication with the FIA was was very positive all along. And it’s not only on compression ratio, but on other things too – and specifically in that area, it’s very clear what the regulation says, very clear what the, let’s say, standard procedures are on any motors, even outside of Formula 1.

“So, just get your s*** together and…you know, doing secret meetings and sending secret letters, and keep trying to invent ways of testing that just don’t exist is, I feel like I can just say at least from us here, we are trying to minimise distractions, and minimising distractions is looking more at us than everybody else when it’s pretty clear what the what the regs say, and also pretty clear what the FIA has said to us and has said to them so far.

“But maybe, we’re all different. Maybe you want to find you want to find excuses before you even started, why things are not good.

“Everybody needs to do it at the best of their ability, but that is really not how is not how we how we would do things, especially not after you’ve been told a few times that that is fine, it’s legal, and it’s what the regulations say.

“Again, if somebody wants to entertain themselves by distraction, then everybody’s free to do this.”

Asked if he expects any protests over the Mercedes power unit, Wolff emphasised the new engine’s legality as per the regulations, and the early indications from the W17 are that the team has a strong starting point – or, at least, not a “turd” of a car this year.

“The power unit is legal,” Wolff stated.

“The power unit corresponds to how the regulations are written. The power unit corresponds to how the checks are being done. The power unit corresponds to how these things are measured in any other vehicle and everything else.

“I can’t judge upon, but that’s how we see the world today, and that’s what the FIA said. That’s what the President of the FIA [Mohammed Ben Sulayem] said, and he knows a bit about that. In that respect, let’s wait and see, but we feel feel robust.

“On the other side, we feel enthused by going into this new environment. It’s obvious that you wake up with more of a smile if the car is quick, and the early indications that we had were positive that at least it doesn’t look like a turd and we’re midfield, it looks like we have something that we can build upon.

“So, generally, we are happy people, but with the skepticism in knowing that we haven’t got reliable data of the other usual suspects.”

dialtone
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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The man that got his driver to look like 80 year olds grandpas getting out of their car to push for TD39?

Is this the same guy? The one that couldn’t “fix his damn car”?

He would never.

Gillian
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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dialtone wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 17:00
The man that got his driver to look like 80 year olds grandpas getting out of their car to push for TD39?

Is this the same guy? The one that couldn’t “fix his damn car”?

He would never.
Made me lol =D>

But yeah, politics. Is it likely this would this be handled with a TD like TD39 or more like they did with DAS?

Badger
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Gillian wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 19:44
dialtone wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 17:00
The man that got his driver to look like 80 year olds grandpas getting out of their car to push for TD39?

Is this the same guy? The one that couldn’t “fix his damn car”?

He would never.
Made me lol =D>

But yeah, politics. Is it likely this would this be handled with a TD like TD39 or more like they did with DAS?
Probably DAS if anything. Toto usually runs circles around Ferrari in the game of politics.

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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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The first fighting words from the Mercedes camp. Interesting. It sounds like there's a real political fight brewing now.
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selvam_e2002
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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I don't think FIA will enforce any rule here.... 4 teams using Mercedes engine so the race will be interesting with 8 cars.... it is up to the other team to catch up...while they catch up, the rule will change again.

I do see this is a clever idea/technique from Mercedes..... The others are not clever or smart....

Or just remove the development restriction so we don't see these complaint from other Manufactures.... they will do in-season development....

basti313
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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dialtone wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 17:00
The man that got his driver to look like 80 year olds grandpas getting out of their car to push for TD39?

Is this the same guy? The one that couldn’t “fix his damn car”?

He would never.
Oh....I guess we are talking about that guy...

selvam_e2002 wrote:
02 Feb 2026, 20:23
I don't think FIA will enforce any rule here.... 4 teams using Mercedes engine so the race will be interesting with 8 cars.... it is up to the other team to catch up...while they catch up, the rule will change again.

I do see this is a clever idea/technique from Mercedes..... The others are not clever or smart....

Or just remove the development restriction so we don't see these complaint from other Manufactures.... they will do in-season development....
I do not think they will open development. Much too expensive.
My bet is they go with something like TD39, but only for next season. Or just check how much benefit they gain and correct it, also next season (27).
Don`t russel the hamster!

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Stu
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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As I see it, the problem is (as usual) with the wording of the regs (rather than the intention). The old ICE regs put a cap of 18:1 on CR at any time, the new ones appear to move that down to 16:1, but specify roughly the temperature at which it will be measured.
If teams were previously keeping to the rules (there is no way of knowing this as it is an impossible to measure ‘thing’ at operating temperature and speed); they will now have changed their methodology and built it to the regulation test, if when measured at ambient temperature the CR measures 15.98:1 the ICE is legal (in much the same way that flexi-wings have been legal provided that no mechanism exists to control it and it passes the load test.
I’m not sure why they haven’t mandated an in-cylinder pressure sensor, the FIA could then monitor BMEP and Dynamic CR.
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.

LM10
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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It was clear as day right from the beginning that there was something going on. It surprises me that some still didn't believe or want to believe it until now.

Wolff is the biggest politician in F1. No wonder he's hypocritical - it's his job after all.

What frustrates me is that there are people calling this compression ratio trickery "pushing boundaries" or "being clever". I'm 100% sure every single PU manufacturer out there would have been able to replicate this, but they didn't. They didn't because they wanted their PU to be compliant with the rules which state that the compression ratio must be 16:1 at all times. It being measured at ambient temperature should not change this fact.

And for those being extremely pedantic, I know that compression ratio always changes at operating temperatures, but it's another thing to build your engine specifically around this and with the aim to increase the compression ratio as much as possible.

Mercedes tells the FIA into their face that they have a trick where the compression ratio is 16:1 when being measured, but as high as 18:1 when operating even though the rules state that this is prohibited. And the FIA say that they are OK with that. Imagine that... what a scandal.
If the rule of the measurement at ambient temperature was added after the engines were built, it's an even bigger scandal.

Like I predicted right from the first day I've heard this: The FIA will eventually ban this for "cost reasons", but only in 2027 at the earliest.
Sempre Forza Ferrari

gearboxtrouble
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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I think banning this would actually be more expensive than just clarifying the rule by stating that the test is to not exceed a 16 CR at ambient temperature. Introducing in cylinder sensors to measure this at operating temp would be complex and expensive because the cylinders themselves would need to be re designed to accommodate them. As many have said this isn't rocket science and already happens in every engine naturally. Designing an engine to maximize this isn't unheard of and using stretch in the rods and thermal expansion of the cylinders has been done in racing or drag engines for a long time. The ADUO system is extremely generous and engines that are 2% behind will have the opportunity to push something as early as race 7.
Last edited by gearboxtrouble on 02 Feb 2026, 23:28, edited 1 time in total.

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hollus
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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It was clear as day right from the beginning...
Let's keep clear and cool heads, please.
It looks like something is going on.
We still don't know what exactly is going on, we only have rumors on top of theories.
We don't know the extent to which the ratio could get in any case.

Shall we wait with being 100% sure of what is actually going on, and calling it with a capital C, until that is known? And call it a likely theory until then?
Warm up your pitchforks if you want, but wait a bit to draw blood, no?
Dunning asked: Do you know, Kruger? Kruger said: Yes.

dialtone
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Stu wrote:As I see it, the problem is (as usual) with the wording of the regs (rather than the intention). The old ICE regs put a cap of 18:1 on CR at any time, the new ones appear to move that down to 16:1, but specify roughly the temperature at which it will be measured.
Just to be clear, this measurement temperature change was made in October 2025.

The complexity isn’t that expansion is hard to model, it isn’t, but that the rule was interpreted differently by different teams because it was, and still is, badly written.

If this is left standing, the literal only fair solution is that teams that didn’t design for this get to continue development of the engine to bridge that gap.

I don’t call this cheat, as the 2019 Ferrari wasn’t either, but it’s bad faith and incompetence from FIA whose goal should be a level playing field. When you change interpretation of the rules that late you have to give time for others to adjust and not freeze their engines.