2026 F1 Cars - General Thread

[ChrisM40]

Not that much, and indycars are 900bhp now and are much lower drag than F1 cars, even with active aero. 0.7 is being generous, its more like 0.85 in reality. The cars lose speed when they run out of electrical power now, and that’s with 800bhp and DRS.

In total the old 22-25 f1 cars had over 1000hp and not 800hp unless you are only counting the ICE and even then that was more like 850-900hp. From what I can see the 2026 indycar engines with hybrid are only going to be hitting 800hp combined with the electric part.

Indycar is only lower drag on ovals because when you see them on road courses they have laughably large wings on both the front and rear. The Indycar is also twin turbo and doesn't have the fuel flow restrictions that F1 has enforced on them.

I get that.

The reason I ask is people are claiming that the cars can do 355kph with ICE alone and hold it. I believe that not possible, they are simply misunderstanding the deployment regulations which state that in overtake mode you can have max deployment until 355 then it drops to 0%. If you lose all the deployment, you aren’t holding 355kph, you will drop back. It can kick in again, but in effect its a speed limiter.

[carisi2k]

I get that.

The reason I ask is people are claiming that the cars can do 355kph with ICE alone and hold it. I believe that not possible, they are simply misunderstanding the deployment regulations which state that in overtake mode you can have max deployment until 355 then it drops to 0%. If you lose all the deployment, you aren’t holding 355kph, you will drop back. It can kick in again, but in effect its a speed limiter.

I agree they aren't doing 355kmh on the ICE alone. After seeing that F1 clip of the cars going down the front straight they certainly don't look any faster then the old cars and you can here when they run out of electricity.

[carisi2k]

Just a question. How low would the top speed likely be if they had no electrical power left for a long straight? With 500bhp from the ICE roughly it cant be good. Surely these cars, even with active aero have high drag compared to say a road car.

Reports suggest about 350km/h at Barcelona.

If they had no electric power then the car would probably need to weigh 100kg less without the battery and associated equipment to get to that speed.

[dialtone]

So 355kph is practically the speed limit in override. 345 without override.

This is because the MGUK deployment is capped at those speeds. There is no benefit in pushing faster so teams will likely start charging once they get there.


They can certainly try and use more engine power then but they’ll probably just save fuel and recharge unless they are in quali mode.

[Stu]

RB22 has very little anti-dive on the front control arms. Very notable considering they were one of the main proponents of extreme anti-dive. Leads me to believe they have found something somewhere else and the other teams are missing a trick.

Could it be that the trick is that they are relying much less on traditional braking? There have been people quoted from the brake manufacturers that teams have requested smaller calipers, etc; could a heavier dependence on the MGU-K braking (only operating through the rear axle) that results in a change of dynamic forces reacted through the front suspension?
Going back to 2021, the last time that rake was a useful tool, they ran significantly less anti-dive.

I don’t know if you’ve ever driven an EV but off pedal energy recovery is a massive slow down of the car.

Most of these cars are driven as a one pedal car where your rarely ever touch the brakes.

Even if no brakes the weight transfer to the front is very significant and at least my Rivian has an owner experience where you need to replace the front tires relatively often (pirelli too so maybe it’s their fault) because they get eaten through by the recovery brake.

I have driven an EV with the regeneration turned up (like driving a golf cart!!); it was horrible !
I also know that the weight transfer will not change under deceleration (and that no amount of anti-anything can prevent that either), the point that I was trying to make was that when they are running the ICE against the MGU-K (and they will do that as much as they are allowed) the braking effect is kinematically different, just as the braking effect of Li-Co is kinematically different to a braking event controlled by the driver exerting pressure on the brake pedal.
All three create a deceleration force on the car, but the car reacts differently and the forces are reacted differently through the suspension for each of them.

[ChrisM40]

Just a question. How low would the top speed likely be if they had no electrical power left for a long straight? With 500bhp from the ICE roughly it cant be good. Surely these cars, even with active aero have high drag compared to say a road car.

Reports suggest about 350km/h at Barcelona.

If they had no electric power then the car would probably need to weigh 100kg less without the battery and associated equipment to get to that speed.

Weight doesnt affect top speed though, at least not on level ground. My point is that however they power the car ~540bhp is not enough to get a single seater of this size and drag to 355kph or to hold it there.

Ultimately its all going to depend in whether they can use electrical power long enough to max out at every track. I suspect they might use electrical power later on the longer straights to maintain top speed. It going to be a balance between acceleration and top speed.

[matteosc]

The '22 formula probably had a relatively cleaner wake but this was offset by the floors still being sensitive to wake. Pretty simple. So while following was closer (seemed so those years) it was probably not as good as it could have been and ultimately the drivers still complained. Yes, it probably could have been tweaked, but ultimately the '22 formula was not perfect, including the driveability issues independent of driving inside of wakes.

As for wings (and costs) three elements are fewer than four (and yes, three are more than two). More tracks per wing means fewer wings per season (if it occurs). Of course the actuators add complexity but only as ME/FEA items ie relatively simple non-aero geometries. The nosecone is simpler as it only has to interace with two pylons instead of eight wing elements. The melted RW endplates and complex flap endplates are gone, as are the beam wings (ommitting two to four wing elements). The wing/season manufacturing conceivably becomes cheaper via reduced part count and simpler parts (RW endplates much simpler now f.e.) and potentially reduced part count/season. Think of it like choosing eight gear ratios for an entire season instead of multiple 6 or 7 speed sets of gears per season. On one hand, an eight speed is more complex, on the other hand, they only have to design and fabricate one spec that is used for a greater distance.

I don't think a simpler shape matters that much in terms of production costs. If they end up having to produce less wings, that would be indeed a cost saving.
In the end the amount of money that the teams spend is controlled via the cost cap, I don't think that the technical rules have a lot to do with it.

[wuzak]

A road car struggles to hit 220mph with 500bhp in ideal conditions, no way a relatively high drag car like an F1 car (even with active aero deployed) can do it with only 500bhp. We are talking a cd of ~0.34 v a cd of ~0.7 which is a low end estimate for the 2026 car with aero deployed. Or am I missing something?

Road cars have a lot of frontal area, this balances the difference in coefficients somewhat.

Indycars can get to 390 kph (242 mph) at Indianapolis from a 700hp engine, seems possible that an F1 car can get to 345 with a 540 hp or so engine.

Not that much, and indycars are 900bhp now and are much lower drag than F1 cars, even with active aero. 0.7 is being generous, its more like 0.85 in reality. The cars lose speed when they run out of electrical power now, and that’s with 800bhp and DRS.

Indycars are boost limited and run about 550hp for the Indy 500.

They run about 700hp for other races.

Not including KERS.

[matteosc]

Could it be that the trick is that they are relying much less on traditional braking? There have been people quoted from the brake manufacturers that teams have requested smaller calipers, etc; could a heavier dependence on the MGU-K braking (only operating through the rear axle) that results in a change of dynamic forces reacted through the front suspension?
Going back to 2021, the last time that rake was a useful tool, they ran significantly less anti-dive.

I don’t know if you’ve ever driven an EV but off pedal energy recovery is a massive slow down of the car.

Most of these cars are driven as a one pedal car where your rarely ever touch the brakes.

Even if no brakes the weight transfer to the front is very significant and at least my Rivian has an owner experience where you need to replace the front tires relatively often (pirelli too so maybe it’s their fault) because they get eaten through by the recovery brake.

I have driven an EV with the regeneration turned up (like driving a golf cart!!); it was horrible !
I also know that the weight transfer will not change under deceleration (and that no amount of anti-anything can prevent that either), the point that I was trying to make was that when they are running the ICE against the MGU-K (and they will do that as much as they are allowed) the braking effect is kinematically different, just as the braking effect of Li-Co is kinematically different to a braking event controlled by the driver exerting pressure on the brake pedal.
All three create a deceleration force on the car, but the car reacts differently and the forces are reacted differently through the suspension for each of them.

Vertical forces through suspensions are the same, horizontal are different, so yuo are right in saying that there is a difference, but I am not sure it would be that big. To me the biggest effect is the vertical load on each axis, which defins how much you can break before locking up, and that does not depend on how you are breaking.

[karana]

Apparently, Ocon reached 355kph in Barcelona, I assume with overtake mode. At 354kph, the MGU-K is limited to 20kW. The fact Ocon could still accelerate to 355kph means the terminal velocity with 420kW (if we assume a 400kW engine) is at least 355kph. The terminal velocity with the engine alone is then at least 349kph.

[FittingMechanics]

Apparently, Ocon reached 355kph in Barcelona, I assume with overtake mode. At 354kph, the MGU-K is limited to 20kW. The fact Ocon could still accelerate to 355kph means the terminal velocity with 420kW (if we assume a 400kW engine) is at least 355kph. The terminal velocity with the engine alone is then at least 349kph.

Great point! I had a suspicion people are underestimating how slippery these cars will be on the straight and this proves it.

[piast9]

I can't wait to see how the racing will look like in 2026. How the end of the straight would look like and how much variability will occur.

[Macklaren]

I can't wait to see how the racing will look like in 2026. How the end of the straight would look like and how much variability will occur.

I don't know...maybe its just me and I obsessively follow F1 news...but all this talk of weird racing and engine shenanigans even before the first test is a bit draining. I'm not as excited for the new season now as i was even a month ago...i can already see fanbois of all colors claiming "this is a conspiracyyyy" if their team doesn't win

[carisi2k]

Reports suggest about 350km/h at Barcelona.

If they had no electric power then the car would probably need to weigh 100kg less without the battery and associated equipment to get to that speed.

Weight doesnt affect top speed though, at least not on level ground. My point is that however they power the car ~540bhp is not enough to get a single seater of this size and drag to 355kph or to hold it there.

Ultimately its all going to depend in whether they can use electrical power long enough to max out at every track. I suspect they might use electrical power later on the longer straights to maintain top speed. It going to be a balance between acceleration and top speed.

Yes weight does affect top speed along with power and drag.

[ChrisM40]

If they had no electric power then the car would probably need to weigh 100kg less without the battery and associated equipment to get to that speed.

Weight doesnt affect top speed though, at least not on level ground. My point is that however they power the car ~540bhp is not enough to get a single seater of this size and drag to 355kph or to hold it there.

Ultimately its all going to depend in whether they can use electrical power long enough to max out at every track. I suspect they might use electrical power later on the longer straights to maintain top speed. It going to be a balance between acceleration and top speed.

Yes weight does affect top speed along with power and drag.

Weight only affects how long it takes to get there, not the actual top speed. In practice of course it does on a real track because of limited straight length and the fact they are rarely flat, but in theory on infinity long level track it doesn’t.