2026 Scuderia Ferrari HP F1 Team

[sucof]

I'm not an engine expert, but if the rules state the compression ratio must be 16:1 at all times, doesn't that make it illegal?

Rules also state aero needs to be rigid and it never was. Sometimes the test is what defines the limit.

Completely different circumstances.
You can’t make a wing infinitely rigid, there will always be some flex with aero load, hence the test is the rule. A test that has often being made stricter mid season mind you.
You can absolutely stay within 16:1 at all times if you design it that way.
If the test was the rule when it came to engine parameters Ferrari would never have had to change what they were doing with their fuel flow back in 2020.

I agree, these are different.

[f1316]

Totally unimportant observation but it’s only just occurred to me that both Ferrari’s PU customers are:
(1) American
(2) Don’t feature any mention of the supplier on their car
(3) are ultimately probably aiming for different supplier in the future (Cadillac with their own, Haas with Toyota)

I suppose the only practical consideration is whether Ferrari will still have customers in a couple of years? Presumably they want to maintain some?

[dialtone]

Totally unimportant observation but it’s only just occurred to me that both Ferrari’s PU customers are:
(1) American
(2) Don’t feature any mention of the supplier on their car
(3) are ultimately probably aiming for different supplier in the future (Cadillac with their own, Haas with Toyota)

I suppose the only practical consideration is whether Ferrari will still have customers in a couple of years? Presumably they want to maintain some?

In all likelihood they’ll remain their sole supplier.

Incidentally how FIA treats the current drama will probably influence how quickly this happens or whether it happens at all.

Cadillac and Toyota probably don’t want to waste time to figure out who’s gameing the rules.

[FittingMechanics]

Totally unimportant observation but it’s only just occurred to me that both Ferrari’s PU customers are:
(1) American
(2) Don’t feature any mention of the supplier on their car
(3) are ultimately probably aiming for different supplier in the future (Cadillac with their own, Haas with Toyota)

I suppose the only practical consideration is whether Ferrari will still have customers in a couple of years? Presumably they want to maintain some?

Toto said Mercedes wants to reduce their number so someone from their camp may (need to) make the switch for the next engine formula

[dans79]

I'm not an engine expert, but if the rules state the compression ratio must be 16:1 at all times, doesn't that make it illegal?

The rules don't say 16:1 at all times.

[dialtone]

I'm not an engine expert, but if the rules state the compression ratio must be 16:1 at all times, doesn't that make it illegal?

The rules don't say 16:1 at all times.

But they do.

[dialtone]

Them rules:

C1.5 Compliance with the regulations
Formula 1 Cars must comply with these regulations in their entirety at all times during a
Competition.

...

C5.4.3 No cylinder of the engine may have a geometric compression ratio higher than 16.0.

[dans79]

Them rules:

C1.5 Compliance with the regulations
Formula 1 Cars must comply with these regulations in their entirety at all times during a
Competition.

...

C5.4.3 No cylinder of the engine may have a geometric compression ratio higher than 16.0.

Do you understand what the "geometric compression ratio" is?

And you for got the most important part.

C5.4.3

No cylinder of the engine may have a geometric compression ratio higher than 16.0. The procedure
to measure this value will be detailed by each PU Manufacturer according to the Guidance
Document FIA-F1-DOC-C042 and executed at ambient temperature. This procedure must be
approved by the FIA Technical Department and included in the PU Manufacturer homologation
dossier.

The fact that the rules specify geometric compression ratio measured at ambient tells you all you need to know. As soon at the engine warms up the completion ratio will change, and if the engineers are even remotely competent it will increase. It just won't increase by the ludicrous amount people all over the internet are claiming.

[dialtone]

Them rules:

C1.5 Compliance with the regulations
Formula 1 Cars must comply with these regulations in their entirety at all times during a
Competition.

...

C5.4.3 No cylinder of the engine may have a geometric compression ratio higher than 16.0.

Do you understand what the "geometric compression ratio" is?

And you for got the most important part.

[snip]

The fact that the rules specify geometric compression ratio measured at ambient tells you all you need to know. As soon at the engine warms up the completion ratio will change, and if the engineers are even remotely competent it will increase. It just won't increase by the ludicrous amount people all over the internet are claiming.

I do know what the geometric compression ratio is. Do you understand what it means that it can't be higher than 16.0 at any point during the competition?

The measurement bit is not the most important part, it's in fact totally irrelevant to the rule, it's a measurement protocol, not the rule. This is not a difficult concept, measurement protocols are updated all the time in-season, flexi wings were updated last year mid season, titanium bolts measurements were updated the year before, TD39 changed the measurement of the floor flex in 2022, Ferrari was fitted with extra fuel flow and ES sensors during the 2019 season.

Stop equating the measurement protocol with the rule just because it's convenient for you to think about it that way. The challenge is to get as close as possible to 16.0 in running conditions. Is the rule well written? No, it isn't we've discussed that at length.

Reporting that the rule doesn't say that the limit is strictly 16.0 is just absurd, if you can't admit that, there's nothing to talk about.

And furthermore the ambient temperature bit was added in October 2025, which should have immediately set off 5-fire alarms everywhere that a change to the engine formula happens that late, to add injury here..

EDIT: and I'll even add more... Why does the FIA need a procedure for measuring the ratio from each team given a protocol that needs to be approved by FIA, if all they have to do is a couple of volumetric calculations on cold engine parts? The FIA never intended for this to be a loophole area.

[dans79]

I do know what the geometric compression ratio is. Do you understand what it means that it can't be higher than 16.0 at any point during the competition?

As the rules stand at the start of the season they say ambient and that's all that matters! If other don't like it they could pursue legal action, they have several avenues open to them.

[dialtone]

I do know what the geometric compression ratio is. Do you understand what it means that it can't be higher than 16.0 at any point during the competition?

As the rules stand at the start of the season they say ambient and that's all that matters! If other don't like it they could pursue legal action, they have several avenues open to them.

Not sure what the argument here is, Audi already said they’re going to do exactly that and FIA decided they don’t want them to do that, as Tombazis declared in the FIA video.

[dans79]

I do know what the geometric compression ratio is. Do you understand what it means that it can't be higher than 16.0 at any point during the competition?

As the rules stand at the start of the season they say ambient and that's all that matters! If other don't like it they could pursue legal action, they have several avenues open to them.

Not sure what the argument here is, Audi already said they’re going to do exactly that and FIA decided they don’t want them to do that, as Tombazis declared in the FIA video.

Lots of teams have said that in the past, but in the end they backed down!

[dialtone]

As the rules stand at the start of the season they say ambient and that's all that matters! If other don't like it they could pursue legal action, they have several avenues open to them.

Not sure what the argument here is, Audi already said they’re going to do exactly that and FIA decided they don’t want them to do that, as Tombazis declared in the FIA video.

Lots of teams have said that in the past, but in the end they backed down!

So your bet is Mercedes is too powerful and a bully and should get it their way because they are my team?

[dans79]

Not sure what the argument here is, Audi already said they’re going to do exactly that and FIA decided they don’t want them to do that, as Tombazis declared in the FIA video.

Lots of teams have said that in the past, but in the end they backed down!

So your bet is Mercedes is too powerful and a bully and should get it their way because they are my team?

No the other teams are to weak or just talk a good game but don't follow through!

[ryaan2904]

Them rules:

Do you understand what the "geometric compression ratio" is?

And you for got the most important part.

[snip]

The fact that the rules specify geometric compression ratio measured at ambient tells you all you need to know. As soon at the engine warms up the completion ratio will change, and if the engineers are even remotely competent it will increase. It just won't increase by the ludicrous amount people all over the internet are claiming.

I do know what the geometric compression ratio is. Do you understand what it means that it can't be higher than 16.0 at any point during the competition?

The measurement bit is not the most important part, it's in fact totally irrelevant to the rule, it's a measurement protocol, not the rule. This is not a difficult concept, measurement protocols are updated all the time in-season, flexi wings were updated last year mid season, titanium bolts measurements were updated the year before, TD39 changed the measurement of the floor flex in 2022, Ferrari was fitted with extra fuel flow and ES sensors during the 2019 season.

Stop equating the measurement protocol with the rule just because it's convenient for you to think about it that way. The challenge is to get as close as possible to 16.0 in running conditions. Is the rule well written? No, it isn't we've discussed that at length.

Reporting that the rule doesn't say that the limit is strictly 16.0 is just absurd, if you can't admit that, there's nothing to talk about.

And furthermore the ambient temperature bit was added in October 2025, which should have immediately set off 5-fire alarms everywhere that a change to the engine formula happens that late, to add injury here..

EDIT: and I'll even add more... Why does the FIA need a procedure for measuring the ratio from each team given a protocol that needs to be approved by FIA, if all they have to do is a couple of volumetric calculations on cold engine parts? The FIA never intended for this to be a loophole area.

This! Well said