2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

[basti313]

This also suggest that 16:1 at all times was the desired interpretation. There are some who believe that the amendment of the wording in October of 2025 was the FIA greenlighting a loophole. However, it sounds like the FIA did not intend anyone to exceed 16:1, and that exceeding it is not something they foresaw or wanted to enable.

Well, I would even say, that it was never in question. The compression ratio is a design feature, that you check and calculate on a disassembled engine. It has nothing to do with abnormal temperatures for any normal engineer.

I think with more combustion power t....

I would say that using it for more power is just stupid. Anything that shows up on a dyno would be stupid as the FIA can see the power values.

The interesting part comes from this equation for an ideal Otto cycle:
thermal efficiency = 1-1/CR^0.3..0.4

So the compression ration CR directly defines the thermal efficiency. If they are smart, they try to replicate the same peak power or even slightly lower power than the other engines. And use the thermal efficiency to beat them like school boys on aero and fuel consumption.
Like this they will say they have no engine benefit, just a better car.

[AR3-GP]

I would say that using it for more power is just stupid. Anything that shows up on a dyno would be stupid as the FIA can see the power values.

The interesting part comes from this equation for an ideal Otto cycle:
thermal efficiency = 1-1/CR^0.3..0.4

So the compression ration CR directly defines the thermal efficiency. If they are smart, they try to replicate the same peak power or even slightly lower power than the other engines. And use the thermal efficiency to beat them like school boys on aero and fuel consumption.
Like this they will say they have no engine benefit, just a better car.

You need to compare the laptime sensitivities for weight and power on every track before making that decision.

[peewon]

The FIA certainly could have done a better job of tightening up the language in the rules/measurement procedure in an effort to close this loophole before it was exploited, but IMO Mercedes is not absolved of responsibility, either. I think any intelligent person reading the regulations in good faith would've flagged Mercedes (alleged) development path as a high-risk loophole that could've been anticipated to potentially be closed.

History shows Mercedes has ALWAYS been allowed to race with illegal parts for at least a full season.

Even when oil burning was removed, Mercedes argued to FIA that their oil burning was integral part of their engine and they couldn’t remove it and FIA allowed them only to keep doing it, although in a more controlled way.

They have ALWAYS gotten away with it, I don’t blame them too much for this state that FIA created. Why would they expect something different when for the past 2 decades they’ve done what they wanted from illegal tire tests, to illegal oil burning, to not giving engine modes to customer teams, DAS, TD39 and so on and so forth.

You forgot that a former Mercedes lawyer was also the one investigating the Red Bull cap breach. Then Toto Wolff coincidentally knew who the teams in breach were before the FIA had announced it. Mercedes and McLaren flexi wings were allowed to continue for two half seasons although previously they had banned them or tightened up the tests with a month's notice. Look up TD18 (2023) vs ridiculous excuses given by Tombazis since middle of 2024 in order to avoid doing anything for almost a full seasons worth of races despite complaints from multiple teams.

Anyone who thinks FIA is going to make any changes for this season which might set Mercedes back have not been paying attention.

[AR3-GP]

You forgot that a former Mercedes lawyer was also the one investigating the Red Bull cap breach. Then Toto Wolff coincidentally knew who the teams in breach were before the FIA had announced it. Mercedes and McLaren flexi wings were allowed to continue for two half seasons although previously they had banned them or tightened up the tests with a month's notice. Look up TD18 (2023) vs ridiculous excuses given by Tombazis since middle of 2024 in order to avoid doing anything for almost a full seasons worth of races despite complaints from multiple teams.

Anyone who thinks FIA is going to make any changes for this season which might set Mercedes back have not been paying attention.

FYI, Muhammed Bin Sulayem's brother is the CEO of DP World (a major Mclaren sponsor).

https://gulfbusiness.com/dp-world-ceo-b ... wth-india/

So Mercedes powered teams have their hands all over the proverbial cookie jar

[LM10]

Right at the beginning of this thread I posted that this needs to be banned, but that we all know realistically this will happen only from 2027 onwards at the earliest (because it would be a huge task for the poor Mercedes engineers to rebuild their PU). I also wrote that until then Mercedes will get the chance to dominate the season. This domination will give them the possibility to shift their focus and resources towards 2027 earlier than anyone.

My post was deleted by a mod. What now?

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Unless FIA and FOM are willing to lose the top 2 teams from the 2025 WCC including the reigning WDC from the first, however many races, then they are going to let Mercedes race.

Then it's up to the other teams to catch up using the rules that exist precisely for that reason.

Hell, in 2022 they did nothing to nerf the advantage Red Bull had from overspending the year before whilst developing their 2022 car. And advantage which lasted until 2024 when the real consequences of the restrictions on their 2023 development time were felt.

Of course it is also entirely possible that this is all rumours and speculation and actually Mercedes aren't doing anything that the rest of the grid are doing. Unless the other teams have actually seen inside the Mercesdes ICE.....which would raise MORE questions than answers.

[Badger]

You forgot that a former Mercedes lawyer was also the one investigating the Red Bull cap breach. Then Toto Wolff coincidentally knew who the teams in breach were before the FIA had announced it. Mercedes and McLaren flexi wings were allowed to continue for two half seasons although previously they had banned them or tightened up the tests with a month's notice. Look up TD18 (2023) vs ridiculous excuses given by Tombazis since middle of 2024 in order to avoid doing anything for almost a full seasons worth of races despite complaints from multiple teams.

Anyone who thinks FIA is going to make any changes for this season which might set Mercedes back have not been paying attention.

FYI, Muhammed Bin Sulayem's brother is the CEO of DP World (a major Mclaren sponsor).

https://gulfbusiness.com/dp-world-ceo-b ... wth-india/

So Mercedes powered teams have their hands all over the proverbial cookie jar

He also features heavily and explicitly in the files

[Ferry]

[*]Scenario 3: A secondary chamber exists with a narrow, unsealed duct. Given that at 15,000 RPM the compression stroke occurs in 1/500 of a second, the pressure does not have sufficient time to equalize between the cylinder and the secondary chamber. This effectively increases the compression ratio without altering the geometric compression ratio. In this case, I wish the legal teams the best of luck: while the secondary chamber’s sole function is to circumvent the test, the geometric compression ratio—which is the only parameter explicitly addressed by the regulations—remains unchanged.[/list]

Playing the devils advocate here. What if the primary function is something else? And higher CR is just "collateral damage". No, I don't have any suggestions to the functioning of such a system.

At this point we don't know what Mercedes are doing. It's just speculation, nothing is confirmed afaik.

[LM10]

Of course it is also entirely possible that this is all rumours and speculation and actually Mercedes aren't doing anything that the rest of the grid are doing. Unless the other teams have actually seen inside the Mercesdes ICE.....which would raise MORE questions than answers.

Absolutely! In reality it’s Audi exploiting this grey area.

[AR3-GP]

Of course it is also entirely possible that this is all rumours and speculation and actually Mercedes aren't doing anything that the rest of the grid are doing. Unless the other teams have actually seen inside the Mercesdes ICE.....which would raise MORE questions than answers.

That ship has sailed. Mercedes is the only team that has not spoken out in support of the hot compression test at the PU working group meetings. Think about why that is...

Also, Mercedes had many engineers depart for RBPT, so there are outsiders who have seen the inside of the Mercedes ICE. The latest one moved to RBPT in January: viewtopic.php?p=1321751#p1321751

[Matt2725]

All I do believe, is that if you're hoping for a change that will "nerf" or affect Merc powered cars before the season, you're thinking wishfully.

[dialtone]

Unless FIA and FOM are willing to lose the top 2 teams from the 2025 WCC including the reigning WDC from the first, however many races, then they are going to let Mercedes race.

Then it's up to the other teams to catch up using the rules that exist precisely for that reason.

Hell, in 2022 they did nothing to nerf the advantage Red Bull had from overspending the year before whilst developing their 2022 car. And advantage which lasted until 2024 when the real consequences of the restrictions on their 2023 development time were felt.

Of course it is also entirely possible that this is all rumours and speculation and actually Mercedes aren't doing anything that the rest of the grid are doing. Unless the other teams have actually seen inside the Mercesdes ICE.....which would raise MORE questions than answers.

If this is the reasoning the just ban the engine.

This is straight blackmail reasoning and shows no interest or care for the championship or the sport. If they don’t care enough that they would threaten like that, then leave and be banned.

Ferrari took it on the chin as they took all of the disqualifications or bans or more over the years like 1997, total joke, if Michael wanted to take out Villeneuve he would have, they sure didn’t dq senna for retaliation on Prost when be was in Ferrari the next year.

Nobody needs Mercedes if that’s how they work.

[Sergej]

I think we should ask ourselves why FIA, for the first time, decided to come out with that explanatory video with Tombazis; maybe I'm wrong, but he didn't sound like one who wants to sweep the thing under the carpet until next year.

[dialtone]

I think we should ask ourselves why FIA, for the first time, decided to come out with that explanatory video with Tombazis; maybe I'm wrong, but he didn't sound like one who wants to sweep the thing under the carpet until next year.

Toyota and Cadillac will be engine suppliers as well, Tombazis better not ruin this year for the sport.

[FNTC]

Newey to Sky on the engine controversy.

Well, I'm biased, clearly. I think everybody is aligned, bar one manufacturer, so where that will end up, we'll, I guess find out in Melbourne.