2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[TyreSlip]

Yep, they will probably be beaten even by Cadillac and Audi

I have no doubt that Newey can get the weight down and improve the aero further, but if this engine is homologated in March with the overheating issues unresolved, then I do not see how Aston Martin is beating anyone this season.

Don't forget, "If a manufacturer's ICE is >3% below the best in performance, they gain additional development time and test bench running after the first five races."

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that additional dyno time can only be used to improve next year's engine?

[edu2703]

It's quite strange for me to see Honda facing so many reliability issues, even more than Audi, which has been doing okay so far. The combination of running with limited power mode, Mexico-spec cooling louvers, and still suffering from overheating is quite worrying.

It's still too early to call it McLaren Honda 2.0. We'll see if things improve in the coming days, but the initial indications aren't good.

[Bill]

You all need to chill nobody knows what the problem is and you all jumping to conclusions. It's there second day testing compared to other teams were doing in their second day Barcelona running .at 300km per hour is representative. No team pushed full blast on second day.its obvious the car is too tightly packaged so probably need cooling as alonso alluded to having that issue.these is testing team push and experiment and see what work .they are not here to give you feel-good headline laptimes.maybe is a good idea if fia made it a closed test because they know fans can be annoying.

[Leon Kennedy]

It's quite strange for me to see Honda facing so many reliability issues, even more than Audi, which has been doing okay so far. The combination of running with limited power mode, Mexico-spec cooling louvers, and still suffering from overheating is quite worrying.

It's still too early to call it McLaren Honda 2.0. We'll see if things improve in the coming days, but the initial indications aren't good.

At this point I'm curious if anyone has looked more deeply into Honda's organization when it returned to F1 versus when it left. Some say that those responsible for the Honda's project remained with Red Bull since 2021 and they lost the know-how. Others say the opposite. Who owns the intellectual property for the 2021 engine? Honda or Red Bull? Can Honda see the data for that engine? Well, I would like to know if anyone knows more about it and has studied this area in depth, because the recent performances of the Redbull powertrain suggest the first theory.

[TyreSlip]

It's quite strange for me to see Honda facing so many reliability issues, even more than Audi, which has been doing okay so far. The combination of running with limited power mode, Mexico-spec cooling louvers, and still suffering from overheating is quite worrying.

It's still too early to call it McLaren Honda 2.0. We'll see if things improve in the coming days, but the initial indications aren't good.

At this point I'm curious if anyone has looked more deeply into Honda's organization when it returned to F1 versus when it left. Some say that those responsible for the Honda's project remained with Red Bull since 2021 and they lost the know-how. Others say the opposite. Who owns the intellectual property for the 2021 engine? Honda or Red Bull? Can Honda see the data for that engine? Well, I would like to know if anyone knows more about it and has studied this area in depth, because the recent performances of the Redbull powertrain suggest the first theory.

Honda would always be in a worse spot because Red Bull could hire experienced people who are nearby from Mercedes, Ferrari, or even Renault. We can assume Honda was limited to hiring people from within Japan. A lot of intellectual capital was lost when the Honda board made the dumb decision to leave F1.

[haza]

Lot of people looking at Honda but with the amount of shrink wrapping that bodywork’s undergone I wouldn’t be surprised if the engines struggling to breath so to speak if the cars already overheating as rumoured when running at limited speeds then the engines not going to last at full chat was the same problem with McLaren in 2015 an there size zero packaging Honda had no room to work with an it ended up being massively unreliable an let’s face it Honda had debatably one of if not the most reliable engine towards the end of the last engine regs the core ice engines aren’t much different from what they had just less power and minus the mgu h see how the rest of this week an next goes before making assumptions they could show up next week running fine

[AR3-GP]

Honda would always be in a worse spot because Red Bull could hire experienced people who are nearby from Mercedes, Ferrari, or even Renault. We can assume Honda was limited to hiring people from within Japan. A lot of intellectual capital was lost when the Honda board made the dumb decision to leave F1.

It seems like you are putting the cart before the horse. If Honda didn't leave F1, they would have just continued with Red Bull. Aston Martin would be a Mercedes customer (which would have been fine for AMR). So I don't see a scenario where Honda didn't have a break and still became an exclusive partner of AMR. Honda were actually somewhat lucky that AMR didn't continue with Mercedes since they would have no way back to F1.

[wiktor977]

Honda would always be in a worse spot because Red Bull could hire experienced people who are nearby from Mercedes, Ferrari, or even Renault. We can assume Honda was limited to hiring people from within Japan. A lot of intellectual capital was lost when the Honda board made the dumb decision to leave F1.

It seems like you are putting the cart before the horse. If Honda didn't leave F1, they would have just continued with Red Bull. Aston Martin would be a Mercedes customer (which would have been fine for AMR). So I don't see a scenario where Honda didn't have a break and still became an exclusive partner of AMR. Honda were actually somewhat lucky that AMR didn't continue with Mercedes since they would have no way back to F1.

Not to mention that without Honda there would be no Newey in Aston

[Badger]

Has Newey fallen into the same "size zero" trap as McLaren did in 2015? We know Newey thinks it's easier to make a fast car reliable than it is to make a reliable car fast, but how can you develop a fast car and engine when you are in the garage all day? Has he underestimated the importance of getting out on track by being too radical with his first iteration? They are the sole team with Honda and they've only got 500 km of running in 4 days of testing. For reference McHonda did 1750 km in 2015 testing.

[continuum16]

It's quite strange for me to see Honda facing so many reliability issues, even more than Audi, which has been doing okay so far. The combination of running with limited power mode, Mexico-spec cooling louvers, and still suffering from overheating is quite worrying.

It's still too early to call it McLaren Honda 2.0. We'll see if things improve in the coming days, but the initial indications aren't good.

At this point I'm curious if anyone has looked more deeply into Honda's organization when it returned to F1 versus when it left. Some say that those responsible for the Honda's project remained with Red Bull since 2021 and they lost the know-how. Others say the opposite. Who owns the intellectual property for the 2021 engine? Honda or Red Bull? Can Honda see the data for that engine? Well, I would like to know if anyone knows more about it and has studied this area in depth, because the recent performances of the Redbull powertrain suggest the first theory.

Good question. I don't think that Honda started "from zero" on this engine. From what I can gather, there was at least some staff leftover from the pre-2021 team but also there are significant additions or changes compared to that era. For example, I believe the Honda PU team is spread a lot further than just Japan. At the very least, I know that there is some involvement from the former HPD (now HRC US) team in North America. How much is unknown, but this was confirmed by Honda in 2023.

https://hondanews.com/en-US/releases/re ... a-launches

The link is mostly PR drivel, but states "HRC’s auto racing development center in Japan currently supports Red Bull Powertrains, and is a vital part of the team’s F1 World Championship victories. Starting in 2026, HRC will partner with the Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant F1 team as the team’s official engine supplier. With three F1 races now in the U.S., the new HRC US will be involved in Formula One power unit development and race support starting in 2026."

I don't have any critical insider knowledge, other than knowing someone who works with HRC US on some of their American programs. From what I was told, there is a main Honda team that worked on the Red Bull engines until the engine freeze. Then, when Honda "pulled out" at least some of that team was offloaded onto things like the Acura/Honda LMDh project/next-gen IndyCar engine/hybrid project for a while. But they have since been put back on the F1 development team since the Aston partnership came about. Additionally, there is a contribution from the American side to at least some extent that was not there in the Red Bull era.

Like I said, I don't know to what extent this American team contributes, if it is a handful of people or a full-scale operation, but at least qualitatively I feel pretty confident in saying that the Honda PU in the AMR26 is produced by some amalgamation of the pre-2021 team and some of Honda's other internal divisions.

[TyreSlip]

Honda would always be in a worse spot because Red Bull could hire experienced people who are nearby from Mercedes, Ferrari, or even Renault. We can assume Honda was limited to hiring people from within Japan. A lot of intellectual capital was lost when the Honda board made the dumb decision to leave F1.

It seems like you are putting the cart before the horse. If Honda didn't leave F1, they would have just continued with Red Bull. Aston Martin would be a Mercedes customer (which would have been fine for AMR). So I don't see a scenario where Honda didn't have a break and still became an exclusive partner of AMR. Honda were actually somewhat lucky that AMR didn't continue with Mercedes since they would have no way back to F1.

You do make a good point that I did not consider.

[GoranF1]

So they're running the engine detuned, with massive cooling outlets in the side of the car and it's still overheating? Can't imagine what Alonso is thinking right now

He is thinking....it can't possibly be as bad as 2015.
Newey worked whit Honda and knows what is needed to set Honda on the correct route.
And Alonso will be more patient.

[Alo_Fan]

I have no doubt that Newey can get the weight down and improve the aero further, but if this engine is homologated in March with the overheating issues unresolved, then I do not see how Aston Martin is beating anyone this season.

Don't forget, "If a manufacturer's ICE is >3% below the best in performance, they gain additional development time and test bench running after the first five races."

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but that additional dyno time can only be used to improve next year's engine?

I thought it is for the current season, The Race in their podcasts were alluding to PU manufacturers catching up in season. Can't say for definite though.

[NAPI10]

Alonso at helm tomorrow ; hoping for a productive day tomorrow

[selvam_e2002]

It seems to be 2025 Mclaren days coming.....Please revisit the viewtopic.php?t=21194&start=135.