2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

[dialtone]

Yes. "The Test" does simply not exist. Or can anyone here explain how some FIA staff walks into the garage, gets on the F1 car rolling in, and measures the CR??? This is simply impossible, there is no measurement they can take like this.

Yes there is, a Katech Whistler is used by many sanctioning bodies and is surprisingly accurate when compared against actual measurements. I’ve shared this many times.

But “hot” in the pits doesn’t capture what’s happening in a running / firing engine.

I do not really believe that these gas displacement methods work well due to gas expansion...but, ok I guess you are right.
If they use the simpel orifice method to trick the compression, this slow pressure method will read ok values, as air can go through the orifice during the test. As you mention, it does not assess the firing engine. So this will show 16.

I'm just going to post this here:

PV=nRT

Just in case people aren't familiar with this branch of physics.

And they can unscrew the sparkplug and put in a sealing one or a sensor right there to prevent the explosion and just worry about displacement with the engine hot from the coolant channels.

[Rodak]

Yes there is, a Katech Whistler is used by many sanctioning bodies and is surprisingly accurate when compared against actual measurements. I’ve shared this many times.

But “hot” in the pits doesn’t capture what’s happening in a running / firing engine.

I do not really believe that these gas displacement methods work well due to gas expansion...but, ok I guess you are right.
If they use the simpel orifice method to trick the compression, this slow pressure method will read ok values, as air can go through the orifice during the test. As you mention, it does not assess the firing engine. So this will show 16.

I'm just going to post this here:

PV=nRT

Just in case people aren't familiar with this branch of physics.

And they can unscrew the sparkplug and put in a sealing one or a sensor right there to prevent the explosion and just worry about displacement with the engine hot from the coolant channels.

Well if you're going to try something like that you'd have to disconnect the cams to ensure the valves were closed. Sounds improbable to me.

[dialtone]

I do not really believe that these gas displacement methods work well due to gas expansion...but, ok I guess you are right.
If they use the simpel orifice method to trick the compression, this slow pressure method will read ok values, as air can go through the orifice during the test. As you mention, it does not assess the firing engine. So this will show 16.

I'm just going to post this here:

PV=nRT

Just in case people aren't familiar with this branch of physics.

And they can unscrew the sparkplug and put in a sealing one or a sensor right there to prevent the explosion and just worry about displacement with the engine hot from the coolant channels.

Well if you're going to try something like that you'd have to disconnect the cams to ensure the valves were closed. Sounds improbable to me.

I don't think you do.

The engine maker knows exactly how far into displacement the valves closes, but anyway you can collect the fluid that leaves the valve until it's closed off.

You know that at the bottom of the stroke you are at "ambient", but it's measurable anyway, and you know how much fluid you put in the cylinder and temperature, so no unknowns here.

Compression starts, some fluid leaks from open valve, collect it when the valve is shut, subtract from total volume of fluid you inserted in the cylinder, now get max pressure and since you know the volume of fluid you can calculate the volume of the cylinder at max compression.

You now can calculate the ratio.

Probably simplistic but you should have all the variables to calculate this stuff without disassembling much of the engine.

You really can do with a pressure sensor screwed in from the plug and measuring how much leakage from the valve you get.

[Hoffman900]

Yes. "The Test" does simply not exist. Or can anyone here explain how some FIA staff walks into the garage, gets on the F1 car rolling in, and measures the CR??? This is simply impossible, there is no measurement they can take like this.

Yes there is, a Katech Whistler is used by many sanctioning bodies and is surprisingly accurate when compared against actual measurements. I’ve shared this many times.

But “hot” in the pits doesn’t capture what’s happening in a running / firing engine.

I do not really believe that these gas displacement methods work well due to gas expansion...but, ok I guess you are right.
If they use the simpel orifice method to trick the compression, this slow pressure method will read ok values, as air can go through the orifice during the test. As you mention, it does not assess the firing engine. So this will show 16.

As someone who has personal experience with them, they do, and NASCAR, IMSA and many other sanctioning bodies with compression limits use them as a first check, and they’re usually spot on.

[richardn]

I'm just going to post this here:

PV=nRT

Just in case people aren't familiar with this branch of physics.

And they can unscrew the sparkplug and put in a sealing one or a sensor right there to prevent the explosion and just worry about displacement with the engine hot from the coolant channels.

Well if you're going to try something like that you'd have to disconnect the cams to ensure the valves were closed. Sounds improbable to me.

I don't think you do.

The engine maker knows exactly how far into displacement the valves closes, but anyway you can collect the fluid that leaves the valve until it's closed off.

You know that at the bottom of the stroke you are at "ambient", but it's measurable anyway, and you know how much fluid you put in the cylinder and temperature, so no unknowns here.

Compression starts, some fluid leaks from open valve, collect it when the valve is shut, subtract from total volume of fluid you inserted in the cylinder, now get max pressure and since you know the volume of fluid you can calculate the volume of the cylinder at max compression.

You now can calculate the ratio.

Probably simplistic but you should have all the variables to calculate this stuff without disassembling much of the engine.

You really can do with a pressure sensor screwed in from the plug and measuring how much leakage from the valve you get.

There may be a pressure sensor already mounted. The teams are allowed to use them for preseason testing in their first season with the new regulations. (i.e. all of them this year) There is provision in the rules to fit a slug instead of the sensor for the races. I don't think it is mandatory to have installed provision for a sensor though.

Exceptionally, each Power Unit may be fitted with up to six internal cylinder pressure sensors during
pre-season TCC days, but only if the Power Unit used is supplied by a PU Manufacturer who is in its
first year of supplying Power Units compliant with those Regulations. These sensors must not be
used for control purposes.

[Hoffman900]

Pressure sensors aren’t going to show compression RATIO like you some of uou imagine it will. This has been spelled out several times in this thread.

How many of you actually have experience with these sensors and what they can show you? I do.

[Luscion]

Max on Merc's engine https://x.com/KemalSengulll/status/2021991430026125592

Verstappen: "Let me tell you something: Wait for Melbourne and see suddenly how much power they have. I already know."

Wolff had said that the compression ratio brings 1-2 horsepower.

On this topic, however, Verstappen said, "Add a zero to the end. Even more than that. But I understand what they're trying to do. Because we did so many laps yesterday, they're drawing attention to us. You have to look at it from both sides. Just wait for Melbourne and see how fast they are on the straights."

"Let's take a quick look at the winter tests of the last 10 years; I don't think you could say who the world champion would be from the first day. Especially with such a new set of rules, this is very difficult. For me, all this talk feels more like distraction tactics, but that's fine. I'm focusing on what we're doing here with the team because, to be honest, there's a lot for us to learn."

[Farnborough]

Pressure sensors aren’t going to show compression RATIO like you some of uou imagine it will. This has been spelled out several times in this thread.

Agree with this.

Can a Geometry (definition:- the shape and relative arrangement of the parts of something.) be tested ? It can be accounted for by measuring and quantifying by volume within that method, but tested, I don't see it can be.

Any other method, pressure etc must be an assimilation of measuring relevant Geometries to give something of an estimate.

[FNTC]

Max on Merc's engine https://x.com/KemalSengulll/status/2021991430026125592

Verstappen: "Let me tell you something: Wait for Melbourne and see suddenly how much power they have. I already know."

Wolff had said that the compression ratio brings 1-2 horsepower.

On this topic, however, Verstappen said, "Add a zero to the end. Even more than that. But I understand what they're trying to do. Because we did so many laps yesterday, they're drawing attention to us. You have to look at it from both sides. Just wait for Melbourne and see how fast they are on the straights."

"Let's take a quick look at the winter tests of the last 10 years; I don't think you could say who the world champion would be from the first day. Especially with such a new set of rules, this is very difficult. For me, all this talk feels more like distraction tactics, but that's fine. I'm focusing on what we're doing here with the team because, to be honest, there's a lot for us to learn."

Gotta love Max with his zero f*cks given attitude these days. First he says these regs are no fun and Formual E on steroids, then he says Wolff is lying about the engine.

[Sbrillo88]

Right after today’s test there was a meeting of the f1 commission to discuss about the regulations. We have to wait a little bit. Something will come up. Season is about to start so they need to decide quickly

[basti313]

As someone who has personal experience with them, they do, and NASCAR, IMSA and many other sanctioning bodies with compression limits use them as a first check, and they’re usually spot on.

Do they also do it hot? My issue is that the gas expands on the hot engine, so the measurement should be much less precise.

Can a Geometry (definition:- the shape and relative arrangement of the parts of something.) be tested ? It can be accounted for by measuring and quantifying by volume within that method, but tested, I don't see it can be.

Uhhh...now we are in the biggern lounge? The engines are homologated, there are homologation tests, that test any geometry on the engine.

[Farnborough]

As someone who has personal experience with them, they do, and NASCAR, IMSA and many other sanctioning bodies with compression limits use them as a first check, and they’re usually spot on.

Do they also do it hot? My issue is that the gas expands on the hot engine, so the measurement should be much less precise.

Can a Geometry (definition:- the shape and relative arrangement of the parts of something.) be tested ? It can be accounted for by measuring and quantifying by volume within that method, but tested, I don't see it can be.

Uhhh...now we are in the biggern lounge? The engines are homologated, there are homologation tests, that test any geometry on the engine.

Test meaning ..."a procedure intended to establish the quality, performance, or reliability of something" which isn't homologation.

Show us a compression ratio "test" in true meaning of the word.

Calculation is simply the maths attached to the geometric volume to proscribe tge ratio in that design.

[basti313]

As someone who has personal experience with them, they do, and NASCAR, IMSA and many other sanctioning bodies with compression limits use them as a first check, and they’re usually spot on.

Do they also do it hot? My issue is that the gas expands on the hot engine, so the measurement should be much less precise.

Can a Geometry (definition:- the shape and relative arrangement of the parts of something.) be tested ? It can be accounted for by measuring and quantifying by volume within that method, but tested, I don't see it can be.

Uhhh...now we are in the biggern lounge? The engines are homologated, there are homologation tests, that test any geometry on the engine.

Test meaning ..."a procedure intended to establish the quality, performance, or reliability of something" which isn't homologation.

Show us a compression ratio "test" in true meaning of the word.

Calculation is simply the maths attached to the geometric volume to proscribe tge ratio in that design.

And this is what has been done in F1 for many years. The 1:18 have been policed like this for years...they have the CADs and check if everything is ok by going to the factories and putting parts on the CMM.

[CHT]

AMG Merc has historically been designing engine to operate at higher temperature to improve efficiency and gain hp, and this same running hotter approach will also translate to more thermal expansion gain and reducing cooling needs and smaller radiator. So its not just horsepower gain.

[Rodak]

Round and round and round we go....... If wishes were horses beggars would ride.