2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[gruntguru]

I have no idea if there's any connection to Red Bull. I was just curious if it's something that a team would do. IIf you were going to cut the fuel, then you should harvest for a split second instead. I also wonder how well the FIA sensors detect short burst of current and/or torque spikes. There could be recoverable energy hidden in the "noise".

During a full throttle shift, ICE torque would be similar to maximum GUK torque so it wouldn't slow the ICE quickly enough. Easily solved of course - just skip a few injection events to reduce ICE torque and fuel use enough for the GUK to match revs while the shift gets done. (Firings skipped need not be consecutive.)

[BorisTheBlade]

Interesting onboard of Lando's fastest lap yesterday:

• On the right border of the steering-wheel display you can see the SoC of the ES - although I am pretty sure that the maximum value is not 4 MJ!
• Above the gear number, you can see indicators for deployment and recovery. Also nicely shows how full deployment is mostly right out of corners, sloping down under full-throttle. This scale might also not simply be -350/+350 KW but rather a min/max of what is possible in the given situation.

[The Professor 1989]

I'm sure this isn't the best place to ask this but.... with so much electrical power going to the cars, will they be able to self start if stalled? Almost as if the were never stalled?

[Stu]

I'm sure this isn't the best place to ask this but.... with so much electrical power going to the cars, will they be able to self start if stalled? Almost as if the were never stalled?

Yes, for some time now these have been self-starters. They routinely queue in the pit-lane and switch off during qualifying sessions.

[karana]

I'm sure this isn't the best place to ask this but.... with so much electrical power going to the cars, will they be able to self start if stalled? Almost as if the were never stalled?

Yes, for some time now these have been self-starters. They routinely queue in the pit-lane and switch off during qualifying sessions.

In fact they now even have to start with the MGU-K at all times:

C5.15 Starting the engine
The car must be fired up with its on-board system (MGU-K) at any time.

[gruntguru]

Interesting onboard of Lando's fastest lap yesterday:

• On the right border of the steering-wheel display you can see the SoC of the ES - although I am pretty sure that the maximum value is not 4 MJ!
• Above the gear number, you can see indicators for deployment and recovery. Also nicely shows how full deployment is mostly right out of corners, sloping down under full-throttle. This scale might also not simply be -350/+350 KW but rather a min/max of what is possible in the given situation.

A lot of clipping going on there eg 20 - 22 seconds into the lap - much lower rpm than the previous straight.

[Cold Fussion]

Can really see the superclipping in this video. This might be bad news for one particular user.

[Martin Keene]

Has anyone got any information from a reliable source on the race start procedure for these new engines? I’m seeing stuff on other forums where people are claiming ~10 seconds to build boost before the race start, and some people claiming cars at the back of the grid won’t have enough time to do it and it’s a safety concern.

10 seconds to build boost sounds utterly ridiculous to me.

[wuzak]

• On the right border of the steering-wheel display you can see the SoC of the ES - although I am pretty sure that the maximum value is not 4 MJ!

It is the maximum difference between maximum and minimum SOC allowed.

It would be confusing to have a display saying SOC 8.7MJ and then have to work out whether that is 4MJ above minimum SOC.

[michl420]

• On the right border of the steering-wheel display you can see the SoC of the ES - although I am pretty sure that the maximum value is not 4 MJ!

It is the maximum difference between maximum and minimum SOC allowed.

It would be confusing to have a display saying SOC 8.7MJ and then have to work out whether that is 4MJ above minimum SOC.

He meant probably it is less than 4 MJ, maybe the calculated amount per cycle/straight.

[michl420]

F1 cars have seamless shift gearboxes, and pretty fast ones at that IIRC. I don't think trying to harvest in upshifts is worth the trouble to be honest.

it's free electricity
it's a doddle

the 'seamlessness' of an up-shift done any other way is an illusion
(energy flow rate is cut pre-shift & dumped in the transmission string - worse, PU inertia is far greater than in older cars)

I read somewhere short time ago that the (max?) shifting time was adapted precisely for this reason.

[BorisTheBlade]

• On the right border of the steering-wheel display you can see the SoC of the ES - although I am pretty sure that the maximum value is not 4 MJ!

It is the maximum difference between maximum and minimum SOC allowed.

It would be confusing to have a display saying SOC 8.7MJ and then have to work out whether that is 4MJ above minimum SOC.

He meant probably it is less than 4 MJ, maybe the calculated amount per cycle/straight.

Exactly. In some braking zones it goes from rather empty to more or less full. That is impossible for 4 MJ in total.

[Badger]

It is the maximum difference between maximum and minimum SOC allowed.

It would be confusing to have a display saying SOC 8.7MJ and then have to work out whether that is 4MJ above minimum SOC.

He meant probably it is less than 4 MJ, maybe the calculated amount per cycle/straight.

Exactly. In some braking zones it goes from rather empty to more or less full. That is impossible for 4 MJ in total.

Not really, it's only ever increasing by a little less than half in the biggest harvesting zones, which would require about 5 seconds of continuous max harvest. Sounds unreasonable when you say it but if you actually look at the "harvest/deployment meter" above the gear number you can see how it happens. Using their various engine techniques they can essentially get the full 350 kW from the moment they brake until the moment they go back on throttle on the other end of the corner. In some corners that is easily 3-4-5 seconds when accounting for a bit of LiCo at the start.

See here. I've cut it from the moment he goes to full regen at 46.3s (you can see the green meter above the gear number is fully to the left), then at 51.2s the green meter starts going down. That's 5 seconds of continuous 350kW regen, or 1.75MJ. You can also see the SoC has gone from being at maybe 35-40% to about 80%.