2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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upsidedowntoast
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Lasssept wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 02:38
upsidedowntoast wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 01:49
I think that's a joke screenshot, as no such article is appearing for me on the main motorsport.com website.
https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-la ... /10798436/
My bad, thanks for the link. Are there any other sites reporting this, though? Because once again they mention the "secondary chamber" even though thet contradicts with the theory in the German autosport article that said such a solution would immediately be disallowed?

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venkyhere
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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I have been trying to find out 'exactly how' is the measurement done to determine GCR, and so far haven't found a direct answer. So all these articles (this latest one is now asking whether the temperature is right) are simply trying to stir-up one ####storm after another. Without knowing the "method of measurement" how will we outsiders ever know whether the method itself is biased/fair, forget going to the extent of knowing whether they executed it fairly/not. The whole media circus (lots of conclusions without solid reasoning) around this CR thing is nothing short of gossip/rumour reporting in tabloids.

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Multiple sources have confirmed two separate meetings are set to take place on Wednesday morning, with the F1 Commission and the PUAC each setting out agendas, with one likely to feed the other.

The PUAC has met on several occasions in recent weeks, due to the power unit manufacturers [PUMs] seeking clarity on the topic of compression ratio measurements.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/f1-2026-p ... ay-bahrain

According to Thomas Maher, a journalist who is in Bahrain for the pre-season testing.
Beware of T-Rex

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Hoffman900 wrote:
16 Feb 2026, 22:18
This chamber idea doesn’t make any engineering sense.

I can guarantee 230bar+ of cylinder pressure is going to find its way through a 0.3mm gap.
I think the gap proposal is a poor one as well.
Because if there was a secret chamber there would be no gap as the gap would need to be closed after the engine warms up! A 0.3 mm hole is not stopping combustion jets and imagine all the soot! I think an annulus with the plug growing to seal totally shut at only warm temperatures is more realistc.
Last edited by PlatinumZealot on 18 Feb 2026, 06:39, edited 1 time in total.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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This is exactly as I said it must happen. The engine must be disassembled to measure geometric compretion ratio.
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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venkyhere wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 06:07
I have been trying to find out 'exactly how' is the measurement done to determine GCR, and so far haven't found a direct answer. So all these articles (this latest one is now asking whether the temperature is right) are simply trying to stir-up one ####storm after another. Without knowing the "method of measurement" how will we outsiders ever know whether the method itself is biased/fair, forget going to the extent of knowing whether they executed it fairly/not. The whole media circus (lots of conclusions without solid reasoning) around this CR thing is nothing short of gossip/rumour reporting in tabloids.
There is only one way to measure it. Measure the volumes whether by liquid or by 3d scanner.
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FW17
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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How does this chamber with a small hole work? People say that when heated the small hole closes, but shouldn't the small hole become a bigger hole when heated?

Maybe the chamber gets filled with fuel or something else when operational.

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Sieper
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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FW17 wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 08:39
How does this chamber with a small hole work? People say that when heated the small hole closes, but shouldn't the small hole become a bigger hole when heated?

Maybe the chamber gets filled with fuel or something else when operational.
oooh, thats a smart idea, fill it up with fuel and any and all that leaks out will get combusted. you could even use that, increase the pressure on the hidden chamber input (where the fuel enters it) when accelerating out of corners. This all seems highly illegal to me.

jacme22
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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https://x.com/f1bigdata/status/2024065187473408229?s=61

No changes expected. Testing under real conditions is likely not possible.

Sbrillo88
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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jacme22 wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 12:44
https://x.com/f1bigdata/status/2024065187473408229?s=61

No changes expected. Testing under real conditions is likely not possible.
I don't think this question will be close so easily

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motobaleno
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 06:31
Hoffman900 wrote:
16 Feb 2026, 22:18
This chamber idea doesn’t make any engineering sense.

I can guarantee 230bar+ of cylinder pressure is going to find its way through a 0.3mm gap.
I think the gap proposal is a poor one as well.
Because if there was a secret chamber there would be no gap as the gap would need to be closed after the engine warms up! A 0.3 mm hole is not stopping combustion jets and imagine all the soot! I think an annulus with the plug growing to seal totally shut at only warm temperatures is more realistc.
well that's not thermodynamically completely true...a secondary small chamber could be viewed like an RLC filtering circuit..Actually It could be "tuned" (designed) in a way that theoretically in some frequency range (i.e. engine revs) the small chamber is "crossovered" by the combustion process...in theory... then you must verify that this is mechanically feasible and that the design does not induce other bigger problems like misfire etc...in my opinion such a device would be a defeat device and it should be highly illegal but for sure it will pass any static test no matter cold or hot. so this first of all has to be discriminated in this drama...if we are talking about thermal expansion of components like pistons, rods etc or if we are talking about a specific device like a second chamber: these imply completely different scenarios.

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kediown
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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The long-awaited decision from the FIA has arrived! The measurement method is being redefined.

According to the first information coming from the F1 Commission meeting, the FIA is planning to change the engine compression ratio measurement method starting from 1 August 2026.

Badger
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Lol. The mid-season compromise.

Andi76
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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I haven't read or followed the current state of the discussions here, but I would still like to say a few words about it, because I find the topic problematic in many ways. First of all, because an engine that has a compression ratio of 18 instead of 16-1 when warm, regardless of the reason and solution, is undoubtedly illegal.
The current debate about the 2026 Mercedes engine and its alleged dependence on thermal conditions for compliance (or exceeding) compression limits raises fundamental questions for me about the integrity of the technical regulations. A design that has a compression ratio of 16:1 when cold but rises to 18:1 when warm is, according to the wording of the FIA regulations for 2026, undoubtedly illegal.
The most important anchor point for this argument can be found in Article C1.5, which establishes the principle of "continuous conformity." A Formula 1 car must comply with the rules "at all times during a competition in their entirety." This clause leaves no room for an engine that only expands into a more powerful but illegal state when heated up during operation. Since technical inspection (scrutineering) and physical inspection of the hardware are usually carried out in a static state in accordance with Article C1.7, the hardware must already comply with the specifications beyond any doubt at this stage. "Growing" into a different geometry due to heat negates controllability and breaks with the principle that the car must be legal at every moment of the race weekend.
In addition, the strict prohibition of variable geometry systems under Article C5.7 applies here. If an engine increases its compression ratio from 16:1 to 18:1 solely through material expansion, thermal physics effectively acts as a dynamic actuator. Such a change in combustion characteristics of more than 12% is no longer a negligible tolerance, but a functional geometry change that aims to circumvent the static limits of the homologation dossier.

What makes the whole thing even more serious is that it is basically the same thing that Ferrari did in 2019, which is now clearly branded as cheating and was also judged as such. While Ferrari used the time component at the time to inject more fuel than allowed between the measurement intervals of the fuel flow sensor, this concept now uses the temperature component. In both cases, a dynamic state (oscillation frequency at Ferrari, thermal expansion at Mercedes) is abused to render a static measurement by the FIA worthless. The aim is to decouple the physical reality on the race track from the measurable reality in the pit lane.
In conclusion, it should be noted that, according to Article C1.6, the FIA expressly has the right to prohibit technologies that serve solely to undermine the intention of the regulations. An engine whose compression ratio deviates so massively from the base values during operation undermines the level playing field and the technical monitorability of the sport. Mercedes' argument that such an interpretation has been approved by the FIA directly contradicts the requirement for hardware conformity "at all times." Anyone who uses physics to dynamically shift the hardware limits of the regulations is not practicing engineering in the spirit of the sport, but rather systematically circumventing the rules. That said, we must come back to Ferrari here as well—Ferrari also had "the FIA's assurances" at the time, as Binotto said.

So if the Mercedes engine is classified as legal today, if it really does what is rumored, then in my opinion the FIA would make itself completely untrustworthy and incompetent. Because you can't say today that it's legal for Mercedes to abuse a dynamic state to circumvent a measurement when yesterday it was illegal for Ferrari. That would be a double standard. If it's Ferrari, it's illegal; if it's Mercedes, it's legal. It also exposes the rules to ridicule. Because the rules are so clear on this point that they couldn't be any clearer. Then there's no need for rules anymore if the FIA a) measures with double standards and without any consistency and b) if every scandal is circumvented. Because ultimately, it would be a scandal if such a Mercedes engine were classified as illegal. Mercedes would probably leave F1, (justifiably) branded as cheaters, just like Ferrari in 2019. The 2026 F1 World Championship would probably lose five teams or have to disqualify them, causing a huge outcry worldwide and billions in losses. However, one must also ask oneself: how credible are you if you don't take action? What message are you sending? Why write regulations at all if a team with enough customers can do whatever it wants? Don't the others get fed up at some point with always being the idiots while others get away scot-free?

Sorry, but for me, we have reached a point where you have the choice between exposing yourself to ridicule and being superfluous, or justifying your existence and proving your substance, significance, justice, and necessity. If that doesn't happen, everything is just a farce, because you are clearly saying, "You can do whatever you want." You don't even have to follow clear rules yourself, because we can't do anything about it, we are powerless. We can't classify half the starting field as illegal, the scandal would always be too big, as would the loss of image and money. But the rest of you, even if you are always at a disadvantage as a result, you have to comply with everything, and if you don't, you pay and you get punished.

So if there is any truth to the rumors, in my opinion this is a historic moment for the FIA and its existence, as well as for justice and equal treatment in F1. If I were Ferrari president and Mercedes had done this and gotten away with it, I would a) demand the money back that the "penalty" cost in 2019 and b) leave F1 immediately.

zibby43
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Re: 2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

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Andi76 wrote:
18 Feb 2026, 15:08
I haven't read or followed the current state of the discussions here, but I would still like to say a few words about it, because I find the topic problematic in many ways. First of all, because an engine that has a compression ratio of 18 instead of 16-1 when warm, regardless of the reason and solution, is undoubtedly illegal.
The current debate about the 2026 Mercedes engine and its alleged dependence on thermal conditions for compliance (or exceeding) compression limits raises fundamental questions for me about the integrity of the technical regulations. A design that has a compression ratio of 16:1 when cold but rises to 18:1 when warm is, according to the wording of the FIA regulations for 2026, undoubtedly illegal.
The most important anchor point for this argument can be found in Article C1.5, which establishes the principle of "continuous conformity." A Formula 1 car must comply with the rules "at all times during a competition in their entirety." This clause leaves no room for an engine that only expands into a more powerful but illegal state when heated up during operation. Since technical inspection (scrutineering) and physical inspection of the hardware are usually carried out in a static state in accordance with Article C1.7, the hardware must already comply with the specifications beyond any doubt at this stage. "Growing" into a different geometry due to heat negates controllability and breaks with the principle that the car must be legal at every moment of the race weekend.
In addition, the strict prohibition of variable geometry systems under Article C5.7 applies here. If an engine increases its compression ratio from 16:1 to 18:1 solely through material expansion, thermal physics effectively acts as a dynamic actuator. Such a change in combustion characteristics of more than 12% is no longer a negligible tolerance, but a functional geometry change that aims to circumvent the static limits of the homologation dossier.

What makes the whole thing even more serious is that it is basically the same thing that Ferrari did in 2019, which is now clearly branded as cheating and was also judged as such. While Ferrari used the time component at the time to inject more fuel than allowed between the measurement intervals of the fuel flow sensor, this concept now uses the temperature component. In both cases, a dynamic state (oscillation frequency at Ferrari, thermal expansion at Mercedes) is abused to render a static measurement by the FIA worthless. The aim is to decouple the physical reality on the race track from the measurable reality in the pit lane.
In conclusion, it should be noted that, according to Article C1.6, the FIA expressly has the right to prohibit technologies that serve solely to undermine the intention of the regulations. An engine whose compression ratio deviates so massively from the base values during operation undermines the level playing field and the technical monitorability of the sport. Mercedes' argument that such an interpretation has been approved by the FIA directly contradicts the requirement for hardware conformity "at all times." Anyone who uses physics to dynamically shift the hardware limits of the regulations is not practicing engineering in the spirit of the sport, but rather systematically circumventing the rules. That said, we must come back to Ferrari here as well—Ferrari also had "the FIA's assurances" at the time, as Binotto said.

So if the Mercedes engine is classified as legal today, if it really does what is rumored, then in my opinion the FIA would make itself completely untrustworthy and incompetent. Because you can't say today that it's legal for Mercedes to abuse a dynamic state to circumvent a measurement when yesterday it was illegal for Ferrari. That would be a double standard. If it's Ferrari, it's illegal; if it's Mercedes, it's legal. It also exposes the rules to ridicule. Because the rules are so clear on this point that they couldn't be any clearer. Then there's no need for rules anymore if the FIA a) measures with double standards and without any consistency and b) if every scandal is circumvented. Because ultimately, it would be a scandal if such a Mercedes engine were classified as illegal. Mercedes would probably leave F1, (justifiably) branded as cheaters, just like Ferrari in 2019. The 2026 F1 World Championship would probably lose five teams or have to disqualify them, causing a huge outcry worldwide and billions in losses. However, one must also ask oneself: how credible are you if you don't take action? What message are you sending? Why write regulations at all if a team with enough customers can do whatever it wants? Don't the others get fed up at some point with always being the idiots while others get away scot-free?

Sorry, but for me, we have reached a point where you have the choice between exposing yourself to ridicule and being superfluous, or justifying your existence and proving your substance, significance, justice, and necessity. If that doesn't happen, everything is just a farce, because you are clearly saying, "You can do whatever you want." You don't even have to follow clear rules yourself, because we can't do anything about it, we are powerless. We can't classify half the starting field as illegal, the scandal would always be too big, as would the loss of image and money. But the rest of you, even if you are always at a disadvantage as a result, you have to comply with everything, and if you don't, you pay and you get punished.

So if there is any truth to the rumors, in my opinion this is a historic moment for the FIA and its existence, as well as for justice and equal treatment in F1. If I were Ferrari president and Mercedes had done this and gotten away with it, I would a) demand the money back that the "penalty" cost in 2019 and b) leave F1 immediately.
Apply that logic to flexible body work and how all teams used it despite being able to pass static load tests.

Hint: You cannot.