2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

[Rodak]

If we assume that the bore is unchanged, and if this change were to come from rod-length alone....

Why would one assume that? I've seen many posts here that assert the engine has to be heated before starting, as the piston tolerances are so tight it can't turn over cold, which is in itself idiotic as it couldn't be assembled. The bores expand on heating, and as the pistons are iron and the block is aluminum, with heating clearances increase due to different thermal expansion rates; the aluminum expands more than the steel. This would increase swept volume of the cylinder and the compression ratio would increase.

[SmallSoldier]

I think the current solution is the only one possible. It should have to comply at all times, yes. But the only way you can measure it is to physically measure it somehow then calculate it. Unless you have xray measuring tools and can do that on a chassis dyno all you can do is fill it with something while it is hot

Technically the FIA could threaten Mercedes to sue them, or seize the engine to check exactly what is happening, or add specific sensors just to Mercedes without changing any rule or going through the PUAC, you know... like they did with Ferrari in 2019.

Is there any proof? Any evidence? Why would Mercedes had to be only one with specific sensors based on rumors, innuendo or speculation?… So tomorrow, someone starts a rumor about something RBT is doing, gets people like you all riled up and they also need to be the only ones monitored? That doesn’t make sense

[dialtone]

Is there any proof? Any evidence? Why would Mercedes had to be only one with specific sensors based on rumors, innuendo or speculation?… So tomorrow, someone starts a rumor about something RBT is doing, gets people like you all riled up and they also need to be the only ones monitored? That doesn’t make sense

I’m sorry, are you talking about 2019 or today? I can’t tell with the context you have given.

[SmallSoldier]

Is there any proof? Any evidence? Why would Mercedes had to be only one with specific sensors based on rumors, innuendo or speculation?… So tomorrow, someone starts a rumor about something RBT is doing, gets people like you all riled up and they also need to be the only ones monitored? That doesn’t make sense

I’m sorry, are you talking about 2019 or today? I can’t tell with the context you have given.

It’s clear… Don’t think context is needed.

The situations were very different (even though apparently you want to issue parallels between them)… I just find it interesting that some here already classify the Mercedes engine as illegal, without knowing what if anything are they doing… If it would be as clear as it seems to be for most, then the shareholders and sponsors of every team not using a Mercedes engine should be suing the Teams since apparently they are ok with it and will let the Teams using that engine run without protests (Ferrari already stated they won’t protest), maybe the Teams have a bit more information than the one digested from clickbait articles and engaging farming accounts in social media and therefore aren’t taken those measures… Or, every other team works secretely for Mercedes and is helping them cheat… I’m inclined to believe that is the first option.

And in terms of parallels… The FIA issued a TD after Red Bull requested clarification in regards to manipulation of flow sensors, which ultimately made Ferrari lose performance… Ferrari wasn’t single out or individually monitored because of “rumors” as you suggesting should happen with Mercedes.

[dialtone]

It’s clear… Don’t think context is needed.

I’m with you, Ferrari should have never been treated that way.

The situations were very different (even though apparently you want to issue parallels between them)… I just find it interesting that some here already classify the Mercedes engine as illegal, without knowing what if anything are they doing… If it would be as clear as it seems to be for most, then the shareholders and sponsors of every team not using a Mercedes engine should be suing the Teams since they apparently they are ok with it and will let the Teams using that engine run without protests, maybe the Teams have a bit more information than the one digested from clickbait articles and engaging farming accounts in social media and therefore aren’t taken those measures… Or, every other works secretely for Mercedes and is helping them cheat… I’m inclined to believe that is the first option.

And in terms of parallels… The FIA issued a TD after Red Bull requested clarification in regards to manipulation of flow sensors, which ultimately made Ferrari lose performance… Ferrari wasn’t single out or individually monitored because of “rumors” as you suggesting should happen with Mercedes.

Lol. They spent 2 years investigating an engine and after all that, seizing the engine, and adding sensors to split batteries and more, found no proof of anything. Forced Ferrari to talk to avoid a lawsuit.

Imagine thinking that that is all deserved but this blatant level of corruption is justified.

It’s just funny honestly, as you are defending Mercedes, which I’m not accusing. I know you don’t think context matters but you are WILDLY misinformed about what went down in 2018 and 2019, starting with “that engine smells of grapefruit, it’s not legal”.

FIA decided to do nothing to a british team, once again, I sure hope the future “gray areas” will be pardoned similarly because they will be coming.

[dialtone]

When I say, the "gray areas" will come, I do because there are upgrades allowed for the '27 season.

Appendix C4 in the rules specifies what can be upgraded, in particular:

Main ICE assembly comprising combustion chamber surface and pre-chamber detail within cylinder heads, piston, connecting rod, camshaft lobe profiles, intake and exhaust ports, injector port machining, valvegear air spring sub-assemblies.

Are allowed for 2027, so Good Luck FIA.





And then there's more pages but I'll stop there, Appendix C isn't hard to find. And good opportunities to upgrade turbos, ice parts for 2027.

[SmallSoldier]

It’s clear… Don’t think context is needed.

I’m with you, Ferrari should have never been treated that way.

The situations were very different (even though apparently you want to issue parallels between them)… I just find it interesting that some here already classify the Mercedes engine as illegal, without knowing what if anything are they doing… If it would be as clear as it seems to be for most, then the shareholders and sponsors of every team not using a Mercedes engine should be suing the Teams since they apparently they are ok with it and will let the Teams using that engine run without protests, maybe the Teams have a bit more information than the one digested from clickbait articles and engaging farming accounts in social media and therefore aren’t taken those measures… Or, every other works secretely for Mercedes and is helping them cheat… I’m inclined to believe that is the first option.

And in terms of parallels… The FIA issued a TD after Red Bull requested clarification in regards to manipulation of flow sensors, which ultimately made Ferrari lose performance… Ferrari wasn’t single out or individually monitored because of “rumors” as you suggesting should happen with Mercedes.

Lol. They spent 2 years investigating an engine and after all that, seizing the engine, and adding sensors to split batteries and more, found no proof of anything. Forced Ferrari to talk to avoid a lawsuit.

Imagine thinking that that is all deserved but this blatant level of corruption is justified.

It’s just funny honestly, as you are defending Mercedes, which I’m not accusing. I know you don’t think context matters but you are WILDLY misinformed about what went down in 2018 and 2019, starting with “that engine smells of grapefruit, it’s not legal”.

FIA decided to do nothing to a british team, once again, I sure hope the future “gray areas” will be pardoned similarly because they will be coming.

I am not defending Mercedes… I’m arguing that to this point there is no evidence of wrongdoing and asking to add sensors/etc only to their engine based on suspicion alone isn’t ok.

You have your set of facts about 2019 and I’m not here to convince you of anything, but the situations are dissimilar in my opinion… In any case, I will take my leave since apparently this will turn into a partisan discussion instead

[dialtone]

I am not defending Mercedes… I’m arguing that to this point there is no evidence of wrongdoing and asking to add sensors/etc only to their engine based on suspicion alone isn’t ok.

You have your set of facts about 2019 and I’m not here to convince you of anything, but the situations are dissimilar in my opinion… In any case, I will take my leave since apparently this will turn into a partisan discussion instead

I don’t really have my set of facts. The FIA declared “material impossibility to prove a breach” when they announced the agreement they signed with Ferrari.

So explain to me what were they investigating on if after 2 years they still can’t prove anything?

My frustration isn’t with Mercedes, who are doing their job, it’s with the FIA who aren’t. This isn’t partisan as I’m not motivated by Mercedes being “bad”, or an adversary, but by wanting a level playing field over the years, if not in how race situations are judged, at least in how the engineering is managed.

There’s nothing less partisan than asking for consistent application of the rules.

[autodoctor911]

Well. The FIA often does defy their own rules, principals and all logic. But I was speaking of helpful courses of action. A physical test at ambine and at operating temperature should alleviate the public scrutiny for the most part. Next years rules can be made to exclude such workarounds. If they go ahead and force mercedes to change the engines just based on accusations over secret information mercedes will just protest everyone else's engines on the same grounds and well be stuck with no one that is legal

[autodoctor911]

They can't make just one mfr release their designs to the public. It would be nice if they did release them all once the engine designs are locked in and no one can copy stuff though

[autodoctor911]

Was ferrari ever forced to install sensors that no one else had to install? That does seem out of line. Seems like they would have at least checked some other teams. If one is doing it others might also. Whatever it was they thought ferrari was doing. Obviously at first they were doing something if they lost power after a clarification was issued.

[autodoctor911]

Was the investigation just to see what they did that had to be changed after the TD. Seems like they could figure that out before there was even a change in how Everyone was monitored. Secrecy will always cause conspiracy theories as it should though

[WardenOfTheNorth]

It’s clear… Don’t think context is needed.

I’m with you, Ferrari should have never been treated that way.

The situations were very different (even though apparently you want to issue parallels between them)… I just find it interesting that some here already classify the Mercedes engine as illegal, without knowing what if anything are they doing… If it would be as clear as it seems to be for most, then the shareholders and sponsors of every team not using a Mercedes engine should be suing the Teams since they apparently they are ok with it and will let the Teams using that engine run without protests, maybe the Teams have a bit more information than the one digested from clickbait articles and engaging farming accounts in social media and therefore aren’t taken those measures… Or, every other works secretely for Mercedes and is helping them cheat… I’m inclined to believe that is the first option.

And in terms of parallels… The FIA issued a TD after Red Bull requested clarification in regards to manipulation of flow sensors, which ultimately made Ferrari lose performance… Ferrari wasn’t single out or individually monitored because of “rumors” as you suggesting should happen with Mercedes.

Lol. They spent 2 years investigating an engine and after all that, seizing the engine, and adding sensors to split batteries and more, found no proof of anything. Forced Ferrari to talk to avoid a lawsuit.

Imagine thinking that that is all deserved but this blatant level of corruption is justified.

It’s just funny honestly, as you are defending Mercedes, which I’m not accusing. I know you don’t think context matters but you are WILDLY misinformed about what went down in 2018 and 2019, starting with “that engine smells of grapefruit, it’s not legal”.

FIA decided to do nothing to a british team, once again, I sure hope the future “gray areas” will be pardoned similarly because they will be coming.

I am not defending Mercedes… I’m arguing that to this point there is no evidence of wrongdoing and asking to add sensors/etc only to their engine based on suspicion alone isn’t ok.

You have your set of facts about 2019 and I’m not here to convince you of anything, but the situations are dissimilar in my opinion… In any case, I will take my leave since apparently this will turn into a partisan discussion instead

It does seem like some on here have the attitude of "that other team were cheating, therefore Mercedes must be too" lol

[WardenOfTheNorth]

Was ferrari ever forced to install sensors that no one else had to install? That does seem out of line. Seems like they would have at least checked some other teams. If one is doing it others might also. Whatever it was they thought ferrari was doing. Obviously at first they were doing something if they lost power after a clarification was issued.

No. Everyone had the sensors installed.

So actually, the new test at a higher temperature is a good analogy in that everyone has to pass it.

[dialtone]

Was ferrari ever forced to install sensors that no one else had to install? That does seem out of line. Seems like they would have at least checked some other teams. If one is doing it others might also. Whatever it was they thought ferrari was doing. Obviously at first they were doing something if they lost power after a clarification was issued.

No. Everyone had the sensors installed.

So actually, the new test at a higher temperature is a good analogy in that everyone has to pass it.

Nope, Ferrari was the only car with a split battery and they installed on it a special sensor for that. All because Horner thought that something he didn't know was going on. of course nothing was going on.