Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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TeamKoolGreen
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Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Is there an example of a team going hyper aggressive and succeeding ? That is not a leading question. I am just asking

You could almost say Red Bull in 2005 since Adrien Newey got the big payday to go there too. But that program wasn't as fast paced as Aston is now. And they weren't becoming a works team anytime soon.

The works engine deal was a step too far imo. That call should have been made 5 years from now.

Peter Windsor said that this could lead to a British American Racing scenario. It wasn't built from the ground up or curated over time.

Leon Kennedy
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year. But there is less of a revolution from that point of view engine side.

If Honda had an engine like Mercedes' or maybe Ferrari's (we still don't know which is better), well, they would win with Adrian like in 90.
The problem is the engine.

CMSMJ1
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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No.

This team is legacy Jordan etc. It's not a BAR but really is needing to remember that teams win, but individuals can drive teams.
IMPERATOR REX ANGLORUM

Just_a_fan
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 01:23
Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year.
1992 was not his first season with the team. Newey joined Williams in 1990 and his first car, the FW14 didn't win either title in 1991. It was the basis for the amazing FW14B, however, that swept all before it in '92.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

basti313
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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TeamKoolGreen wrote:
26 Feb 2026, 02:36
Is there an example of a team going hyper aggressive and succeeding ? That is not a leading question. I am just asking
Well, yes of course. I would say everyone successful had an aggressive masterplan. The issue is, that Aston is the opposite.
There is simply no masterplan. They invested money, that is all they did. Stroll sen has no clue, they buy one aged engineer after another and half of the drivers is just not capable.

TeamKoolGreen wrote:
26 Feb 2026, 02:36
You could almost say Red Bull in 2005 since Adrien Newey got the big payday to go there too. But that program wasn't as fast paced as Aston is now. And they weren't becoming a works team anytime soon.
Why should they? BAR became a works team after being P2 and with the issue of tobacco disappearing. Which engine manufacturer should have any interest in Aston?
TeamKoolGreen wrote:
26 Feb 2026, 02:36
The works engine deal was a step too far imo. That call should have been made 5 years from now.
Well, it was always an error to be the single team on one engine. I do not really see why this is surprising now...again...
TeamKoolGreen wrote:
26 Feb 2026, 02:36
Peter Windsor said that this could lead to a British American Racing scenario. It wasn't built from the ground up or curated over time.
There was nothing wrong with BAR, I do not get what he wants to compare. BAR scored a well earned second place in the standings. It was very well managed, did a lot right on a limited budget.
Then it was sold to Honda because of the tobacco ban. And then Honda being Honda just pulled the plug. Also here, surprise, surprise.
But I really so not see the comparison to Aston. I would say the best that can happen to Aston is Honda being Honda and pulling the plug.
Don`t russel the hamster!

Martin Keene
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Just_a_fan wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 12:39
Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 01:23
Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year.
1992 was not his first season with the team. Newey joined Williams in 1990 and his first car, the FW14 didn't win either title in 1991. It was the basis for the amazing FW14B, however, that swept all before it in '92.
He came damn close with the FW14 though, with a little more reliability, Canada anyone, who knows what might have happened.

Leon Kennedy
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Martin Keene wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 13:58
Just_a_fan wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 12:39
Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 01:23
Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year.
1992 was not his first season with the team. Newey joined Williams in 1990 and his first car, the FW14 didn't win either title in 1991. It was the basis for the amazing FW14B, however, that swept all before it in '92.
He came damn close with the FW14 though, with a little more reliability, Canada anyone, who knows what might have happened.
Yes you're right, but well guys on the other side there was the strongest driver in history at McLaren. The 1991 one should have already won but it wasn't his first real project like the 1992 one.

purestpurist
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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There was nothing wrong with BAR, I do not get what he wants to compare. BAR scored a well earned second place in the standings. It was very well managed, did a lot right on a limited budget.
Then it was sold to Honda because of the tobacco ban. And then Honda being Honda just pulled the plug. Also here, surprise, surprise.
But I really so not see the comparison to Aston. I would say the best that can happen to Aston is Honda being Honda and pulling the plug.
I believe he's referring to BAR's first season in 1999, where they had truly horrendous reliability and iirc failed to score a point. I don't think the second place came until the original management was replaced

Just_a_fan
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 15:34
Martin Keene wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 13:58
Just_a_fan wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 12:39


1992 was not his first season with the team. Newey joined Williams in 1990 and his first car, the FW14 didn't win either title in 1991. It was the basis for the amazing FW14B, however, that swept all before it in '92.
He came damn close with the FW14 though, with a little more reliability, Canada anyone, who knows what might have happened.
Yes you're right, but well guys on the other side there was the strongest driver in history at McLaren. The 1991 one should have already won but it wasn't his first real project like the 1992 one.
The FW14 in 1991 was Newey's first car at Williams. Compare it to the Scalabroni's FW13 from 1990 and Newey's CG901 for Leyton House in 1990. You can see the similarities with the CG901 and basically nothing with the FW13. The 1991 FW14 was a Newey car. Perhaps it should have won the season but then that can said for many cars/drivers over the years (including Mansell, of course).
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

Andi76
Andi76
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 01:23
Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year. But there is less of a revolution from that point of view engine side.

If Honda had an engine like Mercedes' or maybe Ferrari's (we still don't know which is better), well, they would win with Adrian like in 90.
The problem is the engine.
Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. According to Stroll, they are 4.5 seconds behind, which would mean that the engine has 400 hp less power. Even if Stroll's statements should not be taken at face value, this makes it clear that it is not just the engine that is causing problems. Let's summarize the known problems, some of which have been acknowledged by the team:

The most serious problem actually concerns the integration of the new Honda power unit. As Honda has now confirmed, the engine suffers from abnormal vibrations at high revs, which are so severe that they have repeatedly damaged the newly developed battery system.
However, it would not be the first time that Newey has requested a low crankshaft from the manufacturer. Newey is known for introducing precisely such measures and concepts to achieve the lowest possible center of gravity, especially in cars less than 200 cm wide. In order to place the crankshaft as low as possible in the car, the crankcase must be extremely flat at the bottom. The problem: The flatter the housing, the less material is available to absorb the massive bending forces. The result: the entire engine block begins to "work." Under full load, the housing twists minimally, which throws the crankshaft bearing passages out of alignment. This generates high-frequency vibrations that stress the engine head and internal components, as well as the battery system. It is therefore entirely possible that the concept of the car itself is contributing to this.

Another critical point is the transmission, which Aston Martin now manufactures in-house, unlike in previous years, and no longer sources from Mercedes, and problems with this have been acknowledged. After years of external supply, the company is now manufacturing a transmission itself for the first time. The extreme stresses caused by increased energy recovery during braking lead to mechanical weaknesses that make the car unstable when downshifting. Fernando Alonso expressed concern about the drivability and described the car as one of the most difficult to tune he has ever driven.

Added to this is a delay in aerodynamic development. As Adrian Newey was only able to join the project at a later stage, work in the wind tunnel started about four months after the competition. As a result, the team is currently still busy solving fundamental correlation issues, while teams such as Ferrari and Mercedes are already working on fine-tuning their upgrades.

During testing, it was observed that the rear end suddenly breaks away, which can have several causes. Newey has positioned the wishbones extremely high—some of them are attached directly to the rear wing structure, as has often been noted and reported. One problem could be that this design is intended to maximize airflow under the rear wing (similar to the beam wing that was previously permitted). However, this can also lead to instability during load changes. When the car dives during braking or in fast corner combinations, aerodynamic stall at the rear can occur very abruptly, leading to sudden oversteer. Stiffness problems may also be to blame.

Ultimately, based on the problems acknowledged and the obvious vehicle dynamics characteristics, it is clear that there is more than one problem with the new Aston Martin. And as mentioned, the team itself admits to problems with the transmission and rear end in addition to the engine.

These facts alone make it clear that this cannot be compared to Williams or McLaren in the 1990s, where Newey joined teams with established structures, organization, technology, procedures, and methodologies that were already on a clear upward trend and belonged to the absolute top teams, but rather to a team where all of this is still lacking. The admitted errors with the gearbox alone prove that (at least in some areas) the necessary technology, methodologies, and procedures are lacking. Newey himself has already publicly stated that there is a lack of correlation between the wind tunnel and problems with the simulator. It is therefore very clear and obvious that Aston Martin is much more comparable to Red Bull in 2006, when Newey moved there, than to Williams and McLaren in the 1990s, even though it has newer and more modern infrastructure. And in a team with such limitations, even Adrian Newey cannot work miracles. This is as logical as it is simple. Because if the wind tunnel and simulator alone do not provide data that is precise and "good" enough, even Newey will end up with a car that is problematic and slow. And we're not even talking about "losses" in the organizational area, or in methodologies and procedures.

But to cut a long story short, the AM26 has more problems than just the engine itself, as the team itself admits. So it's wrong to say that if AM had a Mercedes engine, "they would win with Adrian like in 1990." Because to win, a car needs a good transmission and a good rear end. The AM lacks both, which is certainly not due to the engine and therefore makes it obvious that the problems run deeper. And since the team itself, as the highest authority, acknowledges and admits these problems, this is clear evidence that there is more wrong than just the engine. Or is the team lying and saying it has problems where there are none? That doesn't make much sense and would be a first in F1....

Leon Kennedy
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 14:57
Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 01:23
Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year. But there is less of a revolution from that point of view engine side.

If Honda had an engine like Mercedes' or maybe Ferrari's (we still don't know which is better), well, they would win with Adrian like in 90.
The problem is the engine.
Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. According to Stroll, they are 4.5 seconds behind, which would mean that the engine has 400 hp less power. Even if Stroll's statements should not be taken at face value, this makes it clear that it is not just the engine that is causing problems. Let's summarize the known problems, some of which have been acknowledged by the team:

The most serious problem actually concerns the integration of the new Honda power unit. As Honda has now confirmed, the engine suffers from abnormal vibrations at high revs, which are so severe that they have repeatedly damaged the newly developed battery system.
However, it would not be the first time that Newey has requested a low crankshaft from the manufacturer. Newey is known for introducing precisely such measures and concepts to achieve the lowest possible center of gravity, especially in cars less than 200 cm wide. In order to place the crankshaft as low as possible in the car, the crankcase must be extremely flat at the bottom. The problem: The flatter the housing, the less material is available to absorb the massive bending forces. The result: the entire engine block begins to "work." Under full load, the housing twists minimally, which throws the crankshaft bearing passages out of alignment. This generates high-frequency vibrations that stress the engine head and internal components, as well as the battery system. It is therefore entirely possible that the concept of the car itself is contributing to this.

Another critical point is the transmission, which Aston Martin now manufactures in-house, unlike in previous years, and no longer sources from Mercedes, and problems with this have been acknowledged. After years of external supply, the company is now manufacturing a transmission itself for the first time. The extreme stresses caused by increased energy recovery during braking lead to mechanical weaknesses that make the car unstable when downshifting. Fernando Alonso expressed concern about the drivability and described the car as one of the most difficult to tune he has ever driven.

Added to this is a delay in aerodynamic development. As Adrian Newey was only able to join the project at a later stage, work in the wind tunnel started about four months after the competition. As a result, the team is currently still busy solving fundamental correlation issues, while teams such as Ferrari and Mercedes are already working on fine-tuning their upgrades.

During testing, it was observed that the rear end suddenly breaks away, which can have several causes. Newey has positioned the wishbones extremely high—some of them are attached directly to the rear wing structure, as has often been noted and reported. One problem could be that this design is intended to maximize airflow under the rear wing (similar to the beam wing that was previously permitted). However, this can also lead to instability during load changes. When the car dives during braking or in fast corner combinations, aerodynamic stall at the rear can occur very abruptly, leading to sudden oversteer. Stiffness problems may also be to blame.

Ultimately, based on the problems acknowledged and the obvious vehicle dynamics characteristics, it is clear that there is more than one problem with the new Aston Martin. And as mentioned, the team itself admits to problems with the transmission and rear end in addition to the engine.

These facts alone make it clear that this cannot be compared to Williams or McLaren in the 1990s, where Newey joined teams with established structures, organization, technology, procedures, and methodologies that were already on a clear upward trend and belonged to the absolute top teams, but rather to a team where all of this is still lacking. The admitted errors with the gearbox alone prove that (at least in some areas) the necessary technology, methodologies, and procedures are lacking. Newey himself has already publicly stated that there is a lack of correlation between the wind tunnel and problems with the simulator. It is therefore very clear and obvious that Aston Martin is much more comparable to Red Bull in 2006, when Newey moved there, than to Williams and McLaren in the 1990s, even though it has newer and more modern infrastructure. And in a team with such limitations, even Adrian Newey cannot work miracles. This is as logical as it is simple. Because if the wind tunnel and simulator alone do not provide data that is precise and "good" enough, even Newey will end up with a car that is problematic and slow. And we're not even talking about "losses" in the organizational area, or in methodologies and procedures.

But to cut a long story short, the AM26 has more problems than just the engine itself, as the team itself admits. So it's wrong to say that if AM had a Mercedes engine, "they would win with Adrian like in 1990." Because to win, a car needs a good transmission and a good rear end. The AM lacks both, which is certainly not due to the engine and therefore makes it obvious that the problems run deeper. And since the team itself, as the highest authority, acknowledges and admits these problems, this is clear evidence that there is more wrong than just the engine. Or is the team lying and saying it has problems where there are none? That doesn't make much sense and would be a first in F1....
If you provide sources for what you say about these issues, you'll be doing everyone a favor😂. Regarding the rear, I don't see the problems you listed, rather I see problems at the front, but in my opinion they are due to the fact that they haven't touched the car at all regarding the setup. Regarding the gearbox, it's a problem we noticed during the videos, but no one has made an official statement about it. The only reported problem so far is the engine, according to Honda. Lobato himself also stated that Newey says he's absolutely fine with the aero/chassis side of things.

Then okay about the Redbull 2007 comparison, you already know my opinion objectively we are in two completely different worlds, a team that was born that year and that did not have any structure capable of competing Aston Martin, on the other hand, has the best facilities in F1 and has already had previous seasons, such as the eight podiums in 2023 without Newey. Not to mention the names that have passed through this team.

If it goes badly, that's another story.

ScottB
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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My personal view is that Stroll is the problem, specifically senior. We see him, whether at the track, Drive to Survive etc being very involved, what does he know about running a race team? Feels like that issue where people who have been successful in one field just assume they can 'bring their genius' to bare on anything else they choose.

I think this then manifests in the general instability and churn of very senior people, far more than any other team. New leaders arrive, and either seem to fail to hit whatever target Stroll has, or the working relationship generally breaks down. Could also argue there seems to be a culture of new hires being brought in, destabilising / standing on the toes of the last 'shiny thing' that caught the eye.

Add to this, having Lance in the car. He's not the worst driver in the world by any means, but equally, are people pushing themselves to the limit to build the best possible car only to watch the nepo hire stuff it into the wall? This has to have a negative effect on the entire project. Can look at the general upturn at Williams being driven, in part, by having Albon then Sainz, after years of no hoper pay drivers.

Having Lawrence generally step back, leave the current 'brain trust' to get on with it and let his son go play tennis would, for me, lead to a successful team. The resources appear to be there now, but that alone isn't enough, you need the culture, and feels like the Stroll's are a barrier to that for me.

Andi76
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 15:15
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 14:57
Leon Kennedy wrote:
27 Feb 2026, 01:23
Brawn GP comes to mind, engine change, ownership and engineers. Other things that come to mind are Williams 92' and McLaren 98'. In both cases, Newey arrives and they win the world championship in his first year. But there is less of a revolution from that point of view engine side.

If Honda had an engine like Mercedes' or maybe Ferrari's (we still don't know which is better), well, they would win with Adrian like in 90.
The problem is the engine.
Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. According to Stroll, they are 4.5 seconds behind, which would mean that the engine has 400 hp less power. Even if Stroll's statements should not be taken at face value, this makes it clear that it is not just the engine that is causing problems. Let's summarize the known problems, some of which have been acknowledged by the team:

The most serious problem actually concerns the integration of the new Honda power unit. As Honda has now confirmed, the engine suffers from abnormal vibrations at high revs, which are so severe that they have repeatedly damaged the newly developed battery system.
However, it would not be the first time that Newey has requested a low crankshaft from the manufacturer. Newey is known for introducing precisely such measures and concepts to achieve the lowest possible center of gravity, especially in cars less than 200 cm wide. In order to place the crankshaft as low as possible in the car, the crankcase must be extremely flat at the bottom. The problem: The flatter the housing, the less material is available to absorb the massive bending forces. The result: the entire engine block begins to "work." Under full load, the housing twists minimally, which throws the crankshaft bearing passages out of alignment. This generates high-frequency vibrations that stress the engine head and internal components, as well as the battery system. It is therefore entirely possible that the concept of the car itself is contributing to this.

Another critical point is the transmission, which Aston Martin now manufactures in-house, unlike in previous years, and no longer sources from Mercedes, and problems with this have been acknowledged. After years of external supply, the company is now manufacturing a transmission itself for the first time. The extreme stresses caused by increased energy recovery during braking lead to mechanical weaknesses that make the car unstable when downshifting. Fernando Alonso expressed concern about the drivability and described the car as one of the most difficult to tune he has ever driven.

Added to this is a delay in aerodynamic development. As Adrian Newey was only able to join the project at a later stage, work in the wind tunnel started about four months after the competition. As a result, the team is currently still busy solving fundamental correlation issues, while teams such as Ferrari and Mercedes are already working on fine-tuning their upgrades.

During testing, it was observed that the rear end suddenly breaks away, which can have several causes. Newey has positioned the wishbones extremely high—some of them are attached directly to the rear wing structure, as has often been noted and reported. One problem could be that this design is intended to maximize airflow under the rear wing (similar to the beam wing that was previously permitted). However, this can also lead to instability during load changes. When the car dives during braking or in fast corner combinations, aerodynamic stall at the rear can occur very abruptly, leading to sudden oversteer. Stiffness problems may also be to blame.

Ultimately, based on the problems acknowledged and the obvious vehicle dynamics characteristics, it is clear that there is more than one problem with the new Aston Martin. And as mentioned, the team itself admits to problems with the transmission and rear end in addition to the engine.

These facts alone make it clear that this cannot be compared to Williams or McLaren in the 1990s, where Newey joined teams with established structures, organization, technology, procedures, and methodologies that were already on a clear upward trend and belonged to the absolute top teams, but rather to a team where all of this is still lacking. The admitted errors with the gearbox alone prove that (at least in some areas) the necessary technology, methodologies, and procedures are lacking. Newey himself has already publicly stated that there is a lack of correlation between the wind tunnel and problems with the simulator. It is therefore very clear and obvious that Aston Martin is much more comparable to Red Bull in 2006, when Newey moved there, than to Williams and McLaren in the 1990s, even though it has newer and more modern infrastructure. And in a team with such limitations, even Adrian Newey cannot work miracles. This is as logical as it is simple. Because if the wind tunnel and simulator alone do not provide data that is precise and "good" enough, even Newey will end up with a car that is problematic and slow. And we're not even talking about "losses" in the organizational area, or in methodologies and procedures.

But to cut a long story short, the AM26 has more problems than just the engine itself, as the team itself admits. So it's wrong to say that if AM had a Mercedes engine, "they would win with Adrian like in 1990." Because to win, a car needs a good transmission and a good rear end. The AM lacks both, which is certainly not due to the engine and therefore makes it obvious that the problems run deeper. And since the team itself, as the highest authority, acknowledges and admits these problems, this is clear evidence that there is more wrong than just the engine. Or is the team lying and saying it has problems where there are none? That doesn't make much sense and would be a first in F1....
If you provide sources for what you say about these issues, you'll be doing everyone a favor😂. Regarding the rear, I don't see the problems you listed, rather I see problems at the front, but in my opinion they are due to the fact that they haven't touched the car at all regarding the setup. Regarding the gearbox, it's a problem we noticed during the videos, but no one has made an official statement about it. The only reported problem so far is the engine, according to Honda. Lobato himself also stated that Newey says he's absolutely fine with the aero/chassis side of things.

Then okay about the Redbull 2007 comparison, you already know my opinion objectively we are in two completely different worlds, a team that was born that year and that did not have any structure capable of competing Aston Martin, on the other hand, has the best facilities in F1 and has already had previous seasons, such as the eight podiums in 2023 without Newey. Not to mention the names that have passed through this team.

If it goes badly, that's another story.
Posting sources for something that has already been said in F1 TV broadcasts and numerous media outlets? Or where a simple Google search would suffice? I don't think that's my responsibility, especially since the sources, namely the team itself, were mentioned in the aforementioned media outlets. Mike Krack, for example, confirms the problems with the gearbox and suspension and in virtually all areas:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mike-krac ... f1-testing

Especially since these things quickly get around in the paddock and there is usually some truth to them. And according to Honda, the vibration problem goes much deeper and is probably not caused by the engine itself:

https://www.autohebdof1.com/news/f1/Hon ... artin.html

Newey also said recently that they are four months behind...not that he is satisfied with the aero/chassis side. He said "confident."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/newey-re ... evelopment

But what is he supposed to say—that everything is crap? A disaster? Everyone can see that anyway. Furthermore, Newey also admitted that there were problems with the overall package.

This is all clear evidence that speaks for itself. Namely, that it's not working at AM yet. If it were, there wouldn't be such huge problems everywhere, as Mike Krack confirms.

But you're welcome to keep talking yourself into believing otherwise, that honestly comes across more like denying the facts out of desperation. Because the facts speak for themselves. And just because Aston Martin had a reasonably good year in 2023 doesn't mean they're there yet, especially since 2024 and 2025 painted a completely different picture, with hundreds of updates that didn't work and the team getting worse rather than better. This doesn't come out of nowhere, but clearly demonstrates problems with correlation and other issues. The points in 2023 (280), 2024 (243), and 2025 (89) also show a clear downward trend. And you don't judge a team based on something that happened three years ago. Three years is an eternity in F1, but where you were last year is what counts. Last year, Aston Martin was in 7th place with only 89 points and updates that didn't work.

All this speaks volumes, because with a team at the level you claim, things like this don't happen, because there are reasons for things like this. We actually live in two worlds—me in reality and in a world that has been involved with F1 for 42 years. You in the world that desparately just wants Newey to put his best foot forward and suddenly, overnight, a world championship car comes out. But that's not how F1 works, and is currently being proven once again (see Krack's statements – problems everywhere, gearbox, Honda – engine/chassis interaction, etc.) – but these are precisely the things that don't happen at top-level teams that work this way – see Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, which produce an engine-chassis unit that runs smoothly and not something thats according to Mike Krack from Aston Martin "has problems everywhere".
Last edited by Andi76 on 28 Feb 2026, 20:24, edited 1 time in total.

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hollus
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Turn the heat down, folks. It is OK to disagree. Please keep it civil.
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Leon Kennedy
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 19:54
Leon Kennedy wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 15:15
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 14:57


Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. According to Stroll, they are 4.5 seconds behind, which would mean that the engine has 400 hp less power. Even if Stroll's statements should not be taken at face value, this makes it clear that it is not just the engine that is causing problems. Let's summarize the known problems, some of which have been acknowledged by the team:

The most serious problem actually concerns the integration of the new Honda power unit. As Honda has now confirmed, the engine suffers from abnormal vibrations at high revs, which are so severe that they have repeatedly damaged the newly developed battery system.
However, it would not be the first time that Newey has requested a low crankshaft from the manufacturer. Newey is known for introducing precisely such measures and concepts to achieve the lowest possible center of gravity, especially in cars less than 200 cm wide. In order to place the crankshaft as low as possible in the car, the crankcase must be extremely flat at the bottom. The problem: The flatter the housing, the less material is available to absorb the massive bending forces. The result: the entire engine block begins to "work." Under full load, the housing twists minimally, which throws the crankshaft bearing passages out of alignment. This generates high-frequency vibrations that stress the engine head and internal components, as well as the battery system. It is therefore entirely possible that the concept of the car itself is contributing to this.

Another critical point is the transmission, which Aston Martin now manufactures in-house, unlike in previous years, and no longer sources from Mercedes, and problems with this have been acknowledged. After years of external supply, the company is now manufacturing a transmission itself for the first time. The extreme stresses caused by increased energy recovery during braking lead to mechanical weaknesses that make the car unstable when downshifting. Fernando Alonso expressed concern about the drivability and described the car as one of the most difficult to tune he has ever driven.

Added to this is a delay in aerodynamic development. As Adrian Newey was only able to join the project at a later stage, work in the wind tunnel started about four months after the competition. As a result, the team is currently still busy solving fundamental correlation issues, while teams such as Ferrari and Mercedes are already working on fine-tuning their upgrades.

During testing, it was observed that the rear end suddenly breaks away, which can have several causes. Newey has positioned the wishbones extremely high—some of them are attached directly to the rear wing structure, as has often been noted and reported. One problem could be that this design is intended to maximize airflow under the rear wing (similar to the beam wing that was previously permitted). However, this can also lead to instability during load changes. When the car dives during braking or in fast corner combinations, aerodynamic stall at the rear can occur very abruptly, leading to sudden oversteer. Stiffness problems may also be to blame.

Ultimately, based on the problems acknowledged and the obvious vehicle dynamics characteristics, it is clear that there is more than one problem with the new Aston Martin. And as mentioned, the team itself admits to problems with the transmission and rear end in addition to the engine.

These facts alone make it clear that this cannot be compared to Williams or McLaren in the 1990s, where Newey joined teams with established structures, organization, technology, procedures, and methodologies that were already on a clear upward trend and belonged to the absolute top teams, but rather to a team where all of this is still lacking. The admitted errors with the gearbox alone prove that (at least in some areas) the necessary technology, methodologies, and procedures are lacking. Newey himself has already publicly stated that there is a lack of correlation between the wind tunnel and problems with the simulator. It is therefore very clear and obvious that Aston Martin is much more comparable to Red Bull in 2006, when Newey moved there, than to Williams and McLaren in the 1990s, even though it has newer and more modern infrastructure. And in a team with such limitations, even Adrian Newey cannot work miracles. This is as logical as it is simple. Because if the wind tunnel and simulator alone do not provide data that is precise and "good" enough, even Newey will end up with a car that is problematic and slow. And we're not even talking about "losses" in the organizational area, or in methodologies and procedures.

But to cut a long story short, the AM26 has more problems than just the engine itself, as the team itself admits. So it's wrong to say that if AM had a Mercedes engine, "they would win with Adrian like in 1990." Because to win, a car needs a good transmission and a good rear end. The AM lacks both, which is certainly not due to the engine and therefore makes it obvious that the problems run deeper. And since the team itself, as the highest authority, acknowledges and admits these problems, this is clear evidence that there is more wrong than just the engine. Or is the team lying and saying it has problems where there are none? That doesn't make much sense and would be a first in F1....
If you provide sources for what you say about these issues, you'll be doing everyone a favor😂. Regarding the rear, I don't see the problems you listed, rather I see problems at the front, but in my opinion they are due to the fact that they haven't touched the car at all regarding the setup. Regarding the gearbox, it's a problem we noticed during the videos, but no one has made an official statement about it. The only reported problem so far is the engine, according to Honda. Lobato himself also stated that Newey says he's absolutely fine with the aero/chassis side of things.

Then okay about the Redbull 2007 comparison, you already know my opinion objectively we are in two completely different worlds, a team that was born that year and that did not have any structure capable of competing Aston Martin, on the other hand, has the best facilities in F1 and has already had previous seasons, such as the eight podiums in 2023 without Newey. Not to mention the names that have passed through this team.

If it goes badly, that's another story.
Posting sources for something that has already been said in F1 TV broadcasts and numerous media outlets? Or where a simple Google search would suffice? I don't think that's my responsibility, especially since the sources, namely the team itself, were mentioned in the aforementioned media outlets. Mike Krack, for example, confirms the problems with the gearbox and suspension and in virtually all areas:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mike-krac ... f1-testing

Especially since these things quickly get around in the paddock and there is usually some truth to them. And according to Honda, the vibration problem goes much deeper and is probably not caused by the engine itself:

https://www.autohebdof1.com/news/f1/Hon ... artin.html

Newey also said recently that they are four months behind...not that he is satisfied with the aero/chassis side. He said "confident."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/newey-re ... evelopment

But what is he supposed to say—that everything is crap? A disaster? Everyone can see that anyway. Furthermore, Newey also admitted that there were problems with the overall package.

This is all clear evidence that speaks for itself. Namely, that it's not working at AM yet. If it were, there wouldn't be such huge problems everywhere, as Mike Krack confirms.

But you're welcome to keep talking yourself into believing otherwise, that honestly comes across more like denying the facts out of desperation. Because the facts speak for themselves. And just because Aston Martin had a reasonably good year in 2023 doesn't mean they're there yet, especially since 2024 and 2025 painted a completely different picture, with hundreds of updates that didn't work and the team getting worse rather than better. This doesn't come out of nowhere, but clearly demonstrates problems with correlation and other issues. The points in 2023 (280), 2024 (243), and 2025 (89) also show a clear downward trend. And you don't judge a team based on something that happened three years ago. Three years is an eternity in F1, but where you were last year is what counts. Last year, Aston Martin was in 7th place with only 89 points and updates that didn't work.

All this speaks volumes, because with a team at the level you claim, things like this don't happen, because there are reasons for things like this. We actually live in two worlds—me in reality and in a world that has been involved with F1 for 42 years. You in the world that desparately just wants Newey to put his best foot forward and suddenly, overnight, a world championship car comes out. But that's not how F1 works, and is currently being proven once again (see Krack's statements – problems everywhere, gearbox, Honda – engine/chassis interaction, etc.) – but these are precisely the things that don't happen at top-level teams that work this way – see Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, which produce an engine-chassis unit that runs smoothly and not something thats according to Mike Krack from Aston Martin "has problems everywhere".
I don't understand why you speak as if you are trying to convince someone, when we can simply talk and have our opinions.

That said, I agree that when paddock voices converge, there is some truth to it. I don't think Aston Martin went to Melbourne and would have finished first and second. I simply look at things from a 360-degree perspective and Aston Martin was already an important team before Newey's arrival, Briatore himself declared that Newey had not taken Alpine into consideration because he didn't find it competitive. This makes me believe that he saw enormous untapped potential in Aston Martin. He is an engineer who, in addition to aerodynamics, knows other systems very well, such as mechanics and integration with the engine. Clearly, on paper, he makes you make a leap in quality.
Regarding the problems they are having with the car, they haven't even adjusted the setup at the moment, they don't even know if the aero and chassis are OK, They were constantly running 2k rpm less than the others in every corner, they never used overtake energy or anything, the gearbox is thought to be a problem but it is not the main one; Among other things, it is said that they had to modify the gearbox at the last minute to make it work with a new Honda anti-lag system. That is, currently, as stated, Honda is really late.


Then you say that the correlation didn't work, I remember that since he came in and they made the first updates to the amr25 (few because they were dedicating themselves to this year),they had the correlation and in fact they finished 2025 on the rise, in Abu Dhabi they were behind the Mercedes.


My idea was that if Honda made a competitive engine, they could be up there fighting, not the best, but competitive yes. Then I will be wrong or right, this is my idea