2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
mzso
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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JordanMugen wrote:
08 Mar 2026, 19:06
Or it's about watching cars pushed flat out...

You reckon the cars are still spectacular in qualifying even with the superclipping and sacrificing corners? :|
They weren't spectacular to begin with. Drivers driving around alone. Sometimes they botch the braking, or run off the circuit, or worse.

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hollus
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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gearboxtrouble wrote:
08 Mar 2026, 19:54
...the cars should not decide to take fast corners 40-50 kph lower than they can just because its optimal for laptime...
That is not happening. If the car is 50 km/h slower is because the driver demanded partial power to the wheels instead of full, or maybe he demended no power to the wheels instead of partial. The car will automatically decide to harves the difference between the driver's demand to the wheels and the ICE's max output, but it is the driver deciding to go that way.
The only exception (I think) is a corner that can be taken flat out, and even then, the driver has an override button.

This is the driver allowing the car to maximize lap time, not the car telling the driver how to maximize lap time.
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gearboxtrouble
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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hollus wrote:
09 Mar 2026, 00:16
gearboxtrouble wrote:
08 Mar 2026, 19:54
...the cars should not decide to take fast corners 40-50 kph lower than they can just because its optimal for laptime...
That is not happening. If the car is 50 km/h slower is because the driver demanded partial power to the wheels instead of full, or maybe he demended no power to the wheels instead of partial. The car will automatically decide to harves the difference between the driver's demand to the wheels and the ICE's max output, but it is the driver deciding to go that way.
The only exception (I think) is a corner that can be taken flat out, and even then, the driver has an override button.

This is the driver allowing the car to maximize lap time, not the car telling the driver how to maximize lap time.
Yeah thats my point. Super clipping means the car slows down in fast corners because that's the optimal harvesting strat even when the throttle is pinned. It also creates a feedback loop that incents the teams to run (and develop) less downforce than they'd normally do because they'd optimize their deployment on the straights. Mercedes (and to a lesser extent Red Bull) showed the best way to optimize deployment is to deploy all of it in the acceleration zones leading into the active aero zones. This means super clipping in fast corners and in straightline mode which are the only other times 100% throttle is asked for. The driver has no input into that decision to slow the car down in the fast corners. We're going to see cars slow similarly in Eau Rouge and Copse and it will be awful. The rules need to be adjusted to effectively end super clipping on any track.

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hollus
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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The driver has no input into that decision to slow the car down in the fast corners.
But the driver has, AFAIK, an override button for that. If they were in the middle of an overtake in said fast corner, I guarantee they’d push it.
The driver CHOOSES not to do that in the interest of lap time, because lap time = future track position.

It looks and feels very different, but it is no different from tire saving, from starting a race underfueled, or even from slowing down for a corner, if you think about it.
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bananapeel23
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Re: 2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

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gearboxtrouble wrote:
09 Mar 2026, 02:11
The driver has no input into that decision to slow the car down in the fast corners. We're going to see cars slow similarly in Eau Rouge and Copse and it will be awful. The rules need to be adjusted to effectively end super clipping on any track.
The adjustment we need is a reduction in peak output large enough to remove the incentive to clip through fast corners or at the end of straights.

We still want super clipping. It works great in constant speed or gradually slowing turns like hairpins or tightening esses or the turns 1-4 complex in Shanghai.

The way to do that is by making the cars rocket out of corners slightly slower. In other words by reducing peak deployment. If you can’t get back ip to top speed as quickly, the incentive to clip in Eau Rouge or the chicane in Melbourne disappears.

The drivers might still lift and coast a bit into braking zones, but they won’t be super clipping for several seconds.

This will make the cars significantly slower, but it would be a decent bandaid fix for now, until they can work out a long term solution. That long term solution could be more fuel and/or maybe loosening some of the cost-cutting engine restrictions like 16:1 compression ratio, low boost pressure and variable trumpets ban. An unrealistic option could be an anti-lag system in the form of an electric turbo (but not MGU-H because it would be prevented from harvesting and would resort to the wastegate for overpressure)

Realistically though, politics made these regs a mess because Mercedes was afraid of Audi and Audi was afraid of the MGU-H. As a result we got a compromise that resulted in lower efficiency engines with super clipping as a bandaid fix. In reality the cars could probably have 3600 MJ/h of fuel flow on the same amount of race fuel if super clipping was banned. Combine that with front axle regen and an MGU-H that caps harvesting at a level achievable by Audi. The resulting cars would be much less energy starved while burning the same amount of fuel and putting out some 1100 peak horsepower without turbo lag. The lack of turbo lag would make deploying the full 350kW in traction zones impossible, which would extend the effective life of the battery and make overtake less wasteful. Combined with active aero these cars would be the fastest ever while burning much less fuel and making fewer compromises. They would also look really twitchy and be super fun to watch due to the extreme torque. With less power starved cars the aero regs could also be loosened a bit to make them corner better and turn them into monsters that lap faster than the W11.

If Audi were so concerned about the MGU-H being an advantage for estabmished teams, give them additional budget allowance for it and give the non-WEC teams some extra budget for the front MGU. The only downside would be that the cars would come in at maybe 780-790kg instead of 768, which would be a small price to pay.