2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[mzso]

But are these races still counted for ADUO purposes?

It's illogical that races that don't happen would apply. But this is the FIA, so who knows...

[AR3-GP]

But are these races still counted for ADUO purposes?

It's illogical that races that don't happen would apply. But this is the FIA, so who knows...

The regulations are not written in a way that suggests they can deviate from the original ADUO schedule. They have to act within the regulations.

[Leon Kennedy]

But are these races still counted for ADUO purposes?

It's illogical that races that don't happen would apply. But this is the FIA, so who knows...

The regulations are not written in a way that suggests they can deviate from the original ADUO schedule. They have to act within the regulations.

Consider that you take away 2 races and therefore a potential 50 points forecast at the start of the season, those races should count for me for regulation purposes.

[diffuser]

It's illogical that races that don't happen would apply. But this is the FIA, so who knows...

The regulations are not written in a way that suggests they can deviate from the original ADUO schedule. They have to act within the regulations.

Consider that you take away 2 races and therefore a potential 50 points forecast at the start of the season, those races should count for me for regulation purposes.

So the regs say "For each ICE supplied by the PU Manufacturers, an average power will be calculated. The methodology to calculate this power can be found in the Appendix to the Regulations.”

In this context, the word “average” would normally be interpreted as the arithmetic mean. If they intended to reduce the influence of outliers (values that are much lower or higher than the rest), they would likely have specified the median instead. The median is the middle value of a dataset when the values are arranged in order, which makes it less affected by extreme values.

I wouldn't bet $100 on that though.

[mzso]

But are these races still counted for ADUO purposes?

It's illogical that races that don't happen would apply. But this is the FIA, so who knows...

The regulations are not written in a way that suggests they can deviate from the original ADUO schedule. They have to act within the regulations.

I see this:

"Over the first five Competitions of each Championship Season in the 2026‐2030 period, the
FIA will monitor the performance of Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) part of all the Power
Units supplied by each PU Manufacturer to its customer Competitors."

So upgrades would come later if races are cancelled. But there would be more time to develop.

[mzso]

So the regs say "For each ICE supplied by the PU Manufacturers, an average power will be calculated. The methodology to calculate this power can be found in the Appendix to the Regulations.”

In this context, the word “average” would normally be interpreted as the arithmetic mean. If they intended to reduce the influence of outliers (values that are much lower or higher than the rest), they would likely have specified the median instead. The median is the middle value of a dataset when the values are arranged in order, which makes it less affected by extreme values.

I wouldn't bet $100 on that though.

It matters lot how they monitor it. If they only monitor power during races, then Mercedes can simply run with restricted power.
If the monitor test benches and fuel flow and other parameters, Mercedes can't play games.

[Leon Kennedy]

So the regs say "For each ICE supplied by the PU Manufacturers, an average power will be calculated. The methodology to calculate this power can be found in the Appendix to the Regulations.”

In this context, the word “average” would normally be interpreted as the arithmetic mean. If they intended to reduce the influence of outliers (values that are much lower or higher than the rest), they would likely have specified the median instead. The median is the middle value of a dataset when the values are arranged in order, which makes it less affected by extreme values.

I wouldn't bet $100 on that though.

It matters lot how they monitor it. If they only monitor power during races, then Mercedes can simply run with restricted power.
If the monitor test benches and fuel flow and other parameters, Mercedes can't play games.

Following Binotto, they monitor the races, also because taking the example of Honda on the test bench apparently there are no vibrations and which would not make sense if not included.

The regulations are not written in a way that suggests they can deviate from the original ADUO schedule. They have to act within the regulations.

Consider that you take away 2 races and therefore a potential 50 points forecast at the start of the season, those races should count for me for regulation purposes.

So the regs say "For each ICE supplied by the PU Manufacturers, an average power will be calculated. The methodology to calculate this power can be found in the Appendix to the Regulations.”

In this context, the word “average” would normally be interpreted as the arithmetic mean. If they intended to reduce the influence of outliers (values that are much lower or higher than the rest), they would likely have specified the median instead. The median is the middle value of a dataset when the values are arranged in order, which makes it less affected by extreme values.

I wouldn't bet $100 on that though.

Now this is very important, because for example if in 2 races Honda solves the problems, Melbourne could be used as an outlier in the median. With an arithmetic mean it is practically almost certain that Honda will be included in the ADUO And this changes the scenario: in fact, if they hypothetically had a top engine in Japan, they would still be included. Really interesting.

[diffuser]

So the regs say "For each ICE supplied by the PU Manufacturers, an average power will be calculated. The methodology to calculate this power can be found in the Appendix to the Regulations.”

In this context, the word “average” would normally be interpreted as the arithmetic mean. If they intended to reduce the influence of outliers (values that are much lower or higher than the rest), they would likely have specified the median instead. The median is the middle value of a dataset when the values are arranged in order, which makes it less affected by extreme values.

I wouldn't bet $100 on that though.

It matters lot how they monitor it. If they only monitor power during races, then Mercedes can simply run with restricted power.
If the monitor test benches and fuel flow and other parameters, Mercedes can't play games.

Following Binotto, they monitor the races, also because taking the example of Honda on the test bench apparently there are no vibrations and which would not make sense if not included.

Consider that you take away 2 races and therefore a potential 50 points forecast at the start of the season, those races should count for me for regulation purposes.

So the regs say "For each ICE supplied by the PU Manufacturers, an average power will be calculated. The methodology to calculate this power can be found in the Appendix to the Regulations.”

In this context, the word “average” would normally be interpreted as the arithmetic mean. If they intended to reduce the influence of outliers (values that are much lower or higher than the rest), they would likely have specified the median instead. The median is the middle value of a dataset when the values are arranged in order, which makes it less affected by extreme values.

I wouldn't bet $100 on that though.

Now this is very important, because for example if in 2 races Honda solves the problems, Melbourne could be used as an outlier in the median. With an arithmetic mean it is practically almost certain that Honda will be included in the ADUO And this changes the scenario: in fact, if they hypothetically had a top engine in Japan, they would still be included. Really interesting.

They're gonna monitor Races and Qualing, a lot of the regs don't apply to FP. None of the regs apply to what you're running on a dyno. If you waned to run a higher fuel flow in FP you could, the FIA wouldn't stop you. Why would they, it doesn't count for anything.

[mzso]

If you waned to run a higher fuel flow in FP you could, the FIA wouldn't stop you. Why would they, it doesn't count for anything.

Previously they disqualified Gasly from an Azerbaijan GP qualifying because the fuel flow for a split second was higher then the allowed maximum in Free practice, when in a slipstream. Did they change the rule? As I understand this rule was there because FP can decide the starting grid if qualifying is cancelled.

[diffuser]

If you waned to run a higher fuel flow in FP you could, the FIA wouldn't stop you. Why would they, it doesn't count for anything.

Previously they disqualified Gasly from an Azerbaijan GP qualifying because the fuel flow for a split second was higher then the allowed maximum in Free practice, when in a slipstream. Did they change the rule? As I understand this rule was there because FP can decide the starting grid if qualifying is cancelled.

Pierre Gasly was disqualified from qualifying for the 2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix after his Alpine car exceeded the permitted instantaneous fuel mass flow limit of 100 kg/h during his final lap in Q2. Despite finishing 13th in qualifying — a result that exceeded Alpine’s expectations — the FIA technical delegate flagged the breach post-session, leading to a stewards' hearing. It had nothing to do with FP.

I'd presume that if you wanted to test a higher fuel flow in FP, then you'd have to ask the FIA for permission with a good reason. I mean if you did it without asking, you'll be asked to explain why but what are they gonna do disqualify you from FP after the fact? To what end? Disqualify you from Qualifying? They could but I doubt it. They allowed Gastly to start the race from the back.

[WardenOfTheNorth]

But are these races still counted for ADUO purposes?

It's illogical that races that don't happen would apply. But this is the FIA, so who knows...

The regulations are not written in a way that suggests they can deviate from the original ADUO schedule. They have to act within the regulations.

To the regulations talk about after race X or do they talk about calendar dates?

If the former, then who knows what the FIA will decide. If the latter then cancelled races don't make a difference.

[Otromundo]

It's a good thing I went over the messages before starting to talk about harmonics. I hadn't seen a few previous messages that already refer to it.

I think part of the problem comes from there: too many things spinning together for the first time and on top of that, the mechanics mixed with electricity-magnetism.

And then the many discussions they've had about cooling: whether it's at a low level, whether it's aggressive... The oil spinning around in the gearbox which, coincidentally, is also new.

Coincidentally, I know something about harmonics through the problems that Siemens wind turbines have had or are having. The tracks of their gigantic bearings are made in a nearby workshop. We've talked about it several times, but to sum it up, the problem wasn't just harmonics, but also apparently cooling-lubrication of the gears. Although they may seem like very different cases, the main suspects are together: electrical harmonics, mechanical ones, and those produced by vibrations from lack of lubrication. And magnetism is also invited.

Harmonics can be a curse, as you know perfectly well seeing your messages.

Furthermore, the generator motor is a Lego model compared to a current F1 engine. I would even add as a suspect the electric motor directly connected to the engine; I don't like it, and seeing how delicate the touch of the electric motor is, which feels like a whip when demanded, I like it even less.

There is a lot of work just to perfectly check each thing before making changes. I also think we will have fun, although I don't think the improvement will be immediate.

[venkyhere]

It's a good thing I went over the messages before starting to talk about harmonics. I hadn't seen a few previous messages that already refer to it.

I think part of the problem comes from there: too many things spinning together for the first time and on top of that, the mechanics mixed with electricity-magnetism.

And then the many discussions they've had about cooling: whether it's at a low level, whether it's aggressive... The oil spinning around in the gearbox which, coincidentally, is also new.

Coincidentally, I know something about harmonics through the problems that Siemens wind turbines have had or are having. The tracks of their gigantic bearings are made in a nearby workshop. We've talked about it several times, but to sum it up, the problem wasn't just harmonics, but also apparently cooling-lubrication of the gears. Although they may seem like very different cases, the main suspects are together: electrical harmonics, mechanical ones, and those produced by vibrations from lack of lubrication. And magnetism is also invited.

Harmonics can be a curse, as you know perfectly well seeing your messages.

Furthermore, the generator motor is a Lego model compared to a current F1 engine. I would even add as a suspect the electric motor directly connected to the engine; I don't like it, and seeing how delicate the touch of the electric motor is, which feels like a whip when demanded, I like it even less.

There is a lot of work just to perfectly check each thing before making changes. I also think we will have fun, although I don't think the improvement will be immediate.

Since you have worked with vibrations when multiple sources come together, does this theory (quote below) make any sense ? Honda never saw catastrophic vibrations on their 'chassis simulation' PU testing rig in their Japan factory (iirc what I read in this thread during Bahrain test) ; however, the moment the car hit the track, this present problem showed up. Hence the conjecture that it most probably comes from suspension.

How about the rear wheels rear upper wishbone connected to the location where it can yank (at some 'unfortunate' frequency close to some Nth harmonic of natural freq of the powertrain assembly) the exhaust pipe ? A pipe which has a 'long leverage' to the exhaust ports of the engine itself ? Other teams connect this to gearbox casing, which has a dampener (clutch and clutch springs) in between the PU and suspension vibrations.

[mzso]

If you waned to run a higher fuel flow in FP you could, the FIA wouldn't stop you. Why would they, it doesn't count for anything.

Previously they disqualified Gasly from an Azerbaijan GP qualifying because the fuel flow for a split second was higher then the allowed maximum in Free practice, when in a slipstream. Did they change the rule? As I understand this rule was there because FP can decide the starting grid if qualifying is cancelled.

Pierre Gasly was disqualified from qualifying for the 2024 Azerbaijan Grand Prix after his Alpine car exceeded the permitted instantaneous fuel mass flow limit of 100 kg/h during his final lap in Q2. Despite finishing 13th in qualifying — a result that exceeded Alpine’s expectations — the FIA technical delegate flagged the breach post-session, leading to a stewards' hearing. It had nothing to do with FP.

I'd presume that if you wanted to test a higher fuel flow in FP, then you'd have to ask the FIA for permission with a good reason. I mean if you did it without asking, you'll be asked to explain why but what are they gonna do disqualify you from FP after the fact? To what end? Disqualify you from Qualifying? They could but I doubt it. They allowed Gastly to start the race from the back.

I don't know about alpine times, but he was at one of the Red Bull teams when what I was talking about happened.
Edit: Hm he was disqualified in 2019, but apparently also from qualifying. But I remember talk about FP as well. Either the commentators raised it as a theoratical possiblity, or I was thinking of the weighbridge violation.
Which is similar. If rules didn't apply why would they disqualify for that?

[Otromundo]

It's a good thing I went over the messages before starting to talk about harmonics. I hadn't seen a few previous messages that already refer to it.

I think part of the problem comes from there: too many things spinning together for the first time and on top of that, the mechanics mixed with electricity-magnetism.

And then the many discussions they've had about cooling: whether it's at a low level, whether it's aggressive... The oil spinning around in the gearbox which, coincidentally, is also new.

Coincidentally, I know something about harmonics through the problems that Siemens wind turbines have had or are having. The tracks of their gigantic bearings are made in a nearby workshop. We've talked about it several times, but to sum it up, the problem wasn't just harmonics, but also apparently cooling-lubrication of the gears. Although they may seem like very different cases, the main suspects are together: electrical harmonics, mechanical ones, and those produced by vibrations from lack of lubrication. And magnetism is also invited.

Harmonics can be a curse, as you know perfectly well seeing your messages.

Furthermore, the generator motor is a Lego model compared to a current F1 engine. I would even add as a suspect the electric motor directly connected to the engine; I don't like it, and seeing how delicate the touch of the electric motor is, which feels like a whip when demanded, I like it even less.

There is a lot of work just to perfectly check each thing before making changes. I also think we will have fun, although I don't think the improvement will be immediate.

Since you have worked with vibrations when multiple sources come together, does this theory (quote below) make any sense ? Honda never saw catastrophic vibrations on their 'chassis simulation' PU testing rig in their Japan factory (iirc what I read in this thread during Bahrain test) ; however, the moment the car hit the track, this present problem showed up. Hence the conjecture that it most probably comes from suspension.

How about the rear wheels rear upper wishbone connected to the location where it can yank (at some 'unfortunate' frequency close to some Nth harmonic of natural freq of the powertrain assembly) the exhaust pipe ? A pipe which has a 'long leverage' to the exhaust ports of the engine itself ? Other teams connect this to gearbox casing, which has a dampener (clutch and clutch springs) in between the PU and suspension vibrations.

Very interesting, thanks. It would be better in that case: being foreign to the engine, if they find the solution the improvement would be immediate.