2025/2026 Hybrid Powerunit speculation

[Farnborough]

There's, effectively, zilch boost and consequential torque available to carry out traditional style rear tyre heating as previously done on formation lap.

Same as start, needs extreme revs to build anything like the torque curve needed to complete this. Otherwise its a 1600cc atmo pu against massive rear tyre traction.
It would probably risk both the clutch and 1st gear ratio integrity if attempted too.

[mzso]

Motorsport.com discusses the formation lap problem, but doesn't offer much insight :
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/Why- ... /10803679/

There is one piece of info that answers one of the Qs in my original post :

Compared to a normal qualifying out-lap – where the FIA grants an exception allowing up to 8.5 MJ of energy to be recovered and where cars tend to leave the pits with the battery already fairly charged – the formation lap follows different dynamics.

which kind of reinforces my guess that they are not 'enabling a switch'/changing mode from a typical race lap, for the formation lap - it's not treated 'special' like the outlap before a quali lap.

As astonishing as it sounds it looks like no-one bothered to simulate and/or to coach the drivers how to do a warm-up lap that both warms up the tires and retains enough charge.

I don't understand part about an exception. The 8.5 MJ is just as allowed to be recovered here as every, as far as I know. So what's the exception about? And I don't think they are not allowed to top up the battery, and even if that was the case they'd make sure to recharge it during the qualifying in-lap.
So maybe it's a special recharge engine mode, vs race mode. But that doesn't excuse them not running the ICE agains't the K on the grid which would have also helped with the spooling. More exhaust, more turbo RPM.

The Antonelli part is also weird, why did only had a problem doing a burnout? De he waste the charge on the inspection lap already? But also I would think 400 is kW is enough to spin the wheels. The could have revved the engine beforehand without limitation. And in any way. There is no K power before 50km/h. (BTW he's just out of frame on the broadcast footage)

There's, effectively, zilch boost and consequential torque available to carry out traditional style rear tyre heating as previously done on formation lap.

Same as start, needs extreme revs to build anything like the torque curve needed to complete this. Otherwise its a 1600cc atmo pu against massive rear tyre traction.
It would probably risk both the clutch and 1st gear ratio integrity if attempted too.

But they have unlimited time to rev up. The warm-up lap starts at exactly the hour by the local clock. I guess Russel and most of the rest was wiser.

[Farnborough]

Motorsport.com discusses the formation lap problem, but doesn't offer much insight :
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/Why- ... /10803679/

There is one piece of info that answers one of the Qs in my original post :

Compared to a normal qualifying out-lap – where the FIA grants an exception allowing up to 8.5 MJ of energy to be recovered and where cars tend to leave the pits with the battery already fairly charged – the formation lap follows different dynamics.

which kind of reinforces my guess that they are not 'enabling a switch'/changing mode from a typical race lap, for the formation lap - it's not treated 'special' like the outlap before a quali lap.

As astonishing as it sounds it looks like no-one bothered to simulate and/or to coach the drivers how to do a warm-up lap that both warms up the tires and retains enough charge.

I don't understand part about an exception. The 8.5 MJ is just as allowed to be recovered here as every, as far as I know. So what's the exception about? And I don't think they are not allowed to top up the battery, and even if that was the case they'd make sure to recharge it during the qualifying in-lap.
So maybe it's a special recharge engine mode, vs race mode. But that doesn't excuse them not running the ICE agains't the K on the grid which would have also helped with the spooling. More exhaust, more turbo RPM.

The Antonelli part is also weird, why did only had a problem doing a burnout? De he waste the charge on the inspection lap already? But also I would think 400 is kW is enough to spin the wheels. The could have revved the engine beforehand without limitation. And in any way. There is no K power before 50km/h. (BTW he's just out of frame on the broadcast footage)

There's, effectively, zilch boost and consequential torque available to carry out traditional style rear tyre heating as previously done on formation lap.

Same as start, needs extreme revs to build anything like the torque curve needed to complete this. Otherwise its a 1600cc atmo pu against massive rear tyre traction.
It would probably risk both the clutch and 1st gear ratio integrity if attempted too.

But they have unlimited time to rev up. The warm-up lap starts at exactly the hour by the local clock. I guess Russel and most of the rest was wiser.

The turbo doesn't stay on boost after one application, it only spools up effectively under full load .... then drops if the throttle is closed. 10/15 secs of high rev for EACH burnout iteration is not going to happen.

Have you ever driven anything with turbo lag ?

Also, 400kw is never going to be available without the turbo at peak.

[mzso]

The turbo doesn't stay on boost after one application, it only spools up effectively under full load .... then drops if the throttle is closed. 10/15 secs of high rev for EACH burnout iteration is not going to happen.

Well, I'm assuming burnout is manly relevant for leaving the grid from standstill, otherwise it's weaving and heavy braking.

[FW17]

Have you ever driven anything with turbo lag ?

Is hot blowing banned or not enough to keep the turbo spooled?

[Farnborough]

The turbo doesn't stay on boost after one application, it only spools up effectively under full load .... then drops if the throttle is closed. 10/15 secs of high rev for EACH burnout iteration is not going to happen.

Well, I'm assuming burnout is manly relevant for leaving the grid from standstill, otherwise it's weaving and heavy braking.

Up to last season they were all doing three iteration of burnout in final phase, on the straight to the grid positions. They also check clutch function and response, I believe during these events.

Guess that status quo can't be facilitated under these rules.

[Farnborough]

Have you ever driven anything with turbo lag ?

Is hot blowing banned or not enough to keep the turbo spooled?

I'm unsure of exact ruling around this .... that's illustrative of just where this rules set has got to though but "blowing" would describe off throttle airflow while spinning the crankshaft with kinetic from the wheels, that while any throttle restriction was removed (open) and no fuel delivery as a mode. That's as I understand it.

Nothing builds turbo boost like combustion under load though, and why many turbo installation always have to deal with lag in reality.

It just doesn't appear well thought through, does it.

It was MGU-H of course that facilitated this previously. That by spooling the turbine shaft from battery power to give enhanced boost while ICE was ineffective for that purpose, and why they could fully launch, initially, at low rpm.

[FW17]

Have you ever driven anything with turbo lag ?

Is hot blowing banned or not enough to keep the turbo spooled?

I'm unsure of exact ruling around this .... that's illustrative of just where this rules set has got to though but "blowing" would describe off throttle airflow while spinning the crankshaft with kinetic from the wheels, that while any throttle restriction was removed (open) and no fuel delivery as a mode. That's as I understand it.

Nothing builds turbo boost like combustion under load though, and why many turbo installation always have to deal with lag in reality.

It just doesn't appear well thought through, does it.

It was MGU-H of course that facilitated this previously. That by spooling the turbine shaft from battery power to give enhanced boost while ICE was ineffective for that purpose, and why they could fully launch, initially, at low rpm.

Hot blowing was fuel burning during the exhaust stroke

[Farnborough]

My understanding is currently any fuel into exhaust system is forbidden.

They of course are carrying less in this era too.

[FW17]

My understanding is currently any fuel into exhaust system is forbidden.

They of course are carrying less in this era too.

Fuel is only in the cylinder, the spark is delayed till the exhaust port is opened

[Farnborough]

My understanding is currently any fuel into exhaust system is forbidden.

They of course are carrying less in this era too.

Fuel is only in the cylinder, the spark is delayed till the exhaust port is opened

Yes I understand how that works, but thought the control was in ignition etc to specifically prevent this eventuality. The rules don't want it, in other words.

Thats my understanding from reading posts on here containing the FIA section relevant to this aspect.

They'd certainly be doing that IF allowed, as none of the PU manufacturers would be lacking this knowledge.

[MJL]

Hi, I am reading the PU rules now and this part makes me think:

C5.12.6 [..]
Furthermore, the total power reduction is limited to a maximum of 450kW and the resulting electrical DC power of the ERS-K must remain above −100kW. These limits are changed respectively to 600kW and -250kW for the Sprint Qualifying and Qualifying sessions.

Does it mean superclipping in the race is capped to 100kW? I'm looking at Issue 12 from 10/06/2025, are these the latest rules?

[wuzak]

Hi, I am reading the PU rules now and this part makes me think:

C5.12.6 [..]
Furthermore, the total power reduction is limited to a maximum of 450kW and the resulting electrical DC power of the ERS-K must remain above −100kW. These limits are changed respectively to 600kW and -250kW for the Sprint Qualifying and Qualifying sessions.

Does it mean superclipping in the race is capped to 100kW? I'm looking at Issue 12 from 10/06/2025, are these the latest rules?

Issue 16 was published at the end of February.

C5.12.6 was changed in Issue 13:

C5.12.6 The driver maximum power demand must not be reduced at any greater than the rates defined below:
a. 50kW in any 1s period at Competitions where the FIA determines that the power limited distance exceeds 3500m. These Competitions and the vehicle fundamentals used for the calculation of the power limited distance may be found in the document FIA-F1-DOC-Cxxx.
b. 100kW in any 1s period at all other Competitions.
Furthermore, the total power reduction is limited to a maximum of 600kW and the resulting electrical DC power of the ERS-K must remain above −250kW.

[AR3-GP]

Are they not able to put the engine in "no electrical use at all" mode? So they do the formation lap purely on ICE power, surely 400 kW can spin the rears at low speeds?

I believe this is relevant:

It means, that teams are basically allowed to use only the ICE starting full-throttle during these sections. In all other sections they are forced to start with at least 200 KW MGU-K on full-throttle.

MGU-K deployment is forced at full throttle, and then there's a specific ramp down rate (iirc its 50kW/s).

Getting the battery level right is very complex because the tire and brake warmup procedures are done in a way that cannot be predicted and must be done until the target temps are reached.

[michl420]

After the australia gp something come in my mind. Maybe the complicated thing for the drivers is not to harvest the right amount at the right place, but mostly harvest as much as allowed but not to much to not reach the limit (7MJ, 9MJ,...) before the end of the lap and make the MGUK therefore useless for the last 1 or 2 turns?