This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Alonso;
- When will you go out from the bottom fighting with Cadillac and Williams?
- "We have a huge lack of power, more in race, perhaps in 3-4 months" (from that group).
Source;
Remember that in Australia ALO said; "vibrations are not our biggest problem" (i think he meant Power was).
My first post. Hi everyone
I hope these are statements made to try to gain concessions, because a situation like this would be embarrassing for Honda.
However, no one noticed that in Q1 Alonso came out with a delay of 2.0 seconds, compared to 2.4 in Melbourne (a less favourable track by the way)
Not sure how you know it's a less favourable track?
+2 sec, but everyone improved.
Times with full tanks, right?
Or just additional anti-vibro 5 kg
Engine is still about 70-100hp down like in Melbourne, but we got full power on the mguk. Battery is also limited due to spares so its not charging as quickly as it can and well about 10 kg of the makeshift vibration stuff. After all this fixes if it works in Suzuka the car will still be about 20-hp down, but it might be 50hp if they have to limit stuff due to reliability in which case should be where the Red Bull's are currently.
Where do you get all this info from?
First he rolls a joint, then he takes a couple a tokes, lets it sit for 10 minutes. Then he reaches for his keyboard.
Hum so it may only be telemetry?
I doubt they are so naive.
Yes, also because on the test bench many stresses related to the chassis are not visible.
You guys must all be criminals cause all you ever think about is cheating.
Cause they can't detune the the ice on the test bench ????
It's pretty easy to see how consistent it is in the telemetry.
Also, did you read in the regs. If they then come out with a HUGE jump they can prevent them from using it.
From the rules you sent, it says that they prevent the HUGE Jump if there are irregularities. If Honda reaches Mercedes' level without cheating, there's no reason for protests. The ADUO will simply be revoked.
"You guys must all be criminals cause all you ever think about is cheating"
The only ones cheating are the Mercedes team, who are racing with an illegal engine that they simply can't demonstrate on the test benches. Only in June with the hot sensor(with many races already done) justice will be done.
My opinion is based solely on the fact that the ECU on the dyno can demonstrate a certain amount of power that doesn't translate into reality. (a bit like wind tunnel correlation).Imagine if Honda started to reduce the power of the ECU only for ADUO losing precious points for the championship, when in any case he would have joined the ADUO program given the performances in the first race.
Alonso;
- When will you go out from the bottom fighting with Cadillac and Williams?
- "We have a huge lack of power, more in race, perhaps in 3-4 months" (from that group).
Source;
Remember that in Australia ALO said; "vibrations are not our biggest problem" (i think he meant Power was).
My first post. Hi everyone
I hope these are statements made to try to gain concessions, because a situation like this would be embarrassing for Honda.
However, no one noticed that in Q1 Alonso came out with a delay of 2.0 seconds, compared to 2.4 in Melbourne (a less favourable track by the way)
Not sure how you know it's a less favourable track?
You can look at the telemetry yourself, given the many straights. Only from Williams lose more than a second in the final sector. And then just look at the Mercedes teams like Alpine who thanks to their engine have overtaken teams like Red Bull, compared to Melbourne where they struggled much more.
Mercedes is cheating.
But even sand bagging, their engine is still too good!
Rumor from a good inside source stated that MB could be 20-1 CR and their are even other performance gains from that piston.(better heat transfer and better piston to cylinder wall seal)
But I know nothing. LOL
I don't see how Merc could be sandbagging when they have 3 customer teams. If so, do they force them to run detuned too?
That being said, Honda has some horsepower to recover even if they manage to run the engine at max eventually.
Yes, also because on the test bench many stresses related to the chassis are not visible.
You guys must all be criminals cause all you ever think about is cheating.
Cause they can't detune the the ice on the test bench ????
It's pretty easy to see how consistent it is in the telemetry.
Also, did you read in the regs. If they then come out with a HUGE jump they can prevent them from using it.
From the rules you sent, it says that they prevent the HUGE Jump if there are irregularities. If Honda reaches Mercedes' level without cheating, there's no reason for protests. The ADUO will simply be revoked.
"You guys must all be criminals cause all you ever think about is cheating"
The only ones cheating are the Mercedes team, who are racing with an illegal engine that they simply can't demonstrate on the test benches. Only in June with the hot sensor(with many races already done) justice will be done.
My opinion is based solely on the fact that the ECU on the dyno can demonstrate a certain amount of power that doesn't translate into reality. (a bit like wind tunnel correlation).Imagine if Honda started to reduce the power of the ECU only for ADUO losing precious points for the championship, when in any case he would have joined the ADUO program given the performances in the first race.
I hope these are statements made to try to gain concessions, because a situation like this would be embarrassing for Honda.
However, no one noticed that in Q1 Alonso came out with a delay of 2.0 seconds, compared to 2.4 in Melbourne (a less favourable track by the way)
Not sure how you know it's a less favourable track?
You can look at the telemetry yourself, given the many straights. Only from Williams lose more than a second in the final sector. And then just look at the Mercedes teams like Alpine who thanks to their engine have overtaken teams like Red Bull, compared to Melbourne where they struggled much more.
Yet they were closer to the front in Quali than they were in Australia, which really makes it favorable. I kind of said that tongue and cheek. The car is so under powered and so untested that the tracks types that will be more favorably or unfavorable will likely change a lot between now and June. We don't know how under powered they are nor do we really know how aero efficient they are, nor how good in corners they'll be in June. It's gonna be a moving target and picking out patterns are gonna be difficult. This is really just their 2nd test for them.
That "From the rules you sent, it says that they prevent the HUGE Jump if there are irregularities. If Honda reaches Mercedes' level without cheating, there's no reason for protests. The ADUO will simply be revoked. " Is your interpretation of what that says.. I read it more like if you go from from being behind to being way ahead...That being said, they can interpret it either way. Think it is written vaguely on purpose.
The bar is set pretty low considering that we're at the second race of the season. I think they need to have bolder goals.
At least they should aim for full power for Suzuka, whatever that may turn out to be.
I think same. Even here they should use full power at least one car to see what happens. They will not do it like it is road car engine.
Alonso;
- When will you go out from the bottom fighting with Cadillac and Williams?
- "We have a huge lack of power, more in race, perhaps in 3-4 months" (from that group).
Source;
Remember that in Australia ALO said; "vibrations are not our biggest problem" (i think he meant Power was).
My first post. Hi everyone
I hope these are statements made to try to gain concessions, because a situation like this would be embarrassing for Honda.
However, no one noticed that in Q1 Alonso came out with a delay of 2.0 seconds, compared to 2.4 in Melbourne (a less favourable track by the way)
103,096% in Melbourne (Q1) based on Russell
102,17% in in China (Q1) based on Lec
relative comparison to Q3, similar picture
104,39% in Melbourne (Q1vs Q3) based on Russell
103,4% in China (Q1 vs Q3) based on Antonelli
made up roughly 1%, lets hope they can unleash the engine in Japan
I think they've chosen to be realistic in their statements and project the image of a united team. That's good because it's the norm in these cases.
Apparently, they've added an engine mount; I don't know if it includes the batteries. I also don't know if its purpose is to dampen vibrations or if it also adds rigidity to the chassis.
I've heard that the mount will add another ¿10 kg? and it's also said that before this, the car was a few kilos overweight. Less than the Williams, apparently. I mention Williams because I have chosen them as the first important target, although I am perfectly aware that the amazing Audis and Cadillacs exist.
It's also said that the ICE engine is missing approximately 100 hp.
If the primary purpose of the engine mount isn't to reinforce and stiffen the chassis... fine.
I don't see the lack of maximum power from the ICE engine as such a problem for Honda. Provided, of course, that the engine mount drastically reduces vibrations first.
The goal for tomorrow is to finish the race with at least one car. Also, to make good pit stops. That would be significant progress.
Yes, I know they're not very ambitious. But things are very complicated, and I prefer small but firm and constant steps. Even reliability, which is a basic requirement, isn't guaranteed yet. Being modest also has its advantages: if they manage to finish both cars and excel at something, I'll find it wonderful.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.
The bar is set pretty low considering that we're at the second race of the season. I think they need to have bolder goals.
At least they should aim for full power for Suzuka, whatever that may turn out to be.
I think same. Even here they should use full power at least one car to see what happens. They will not do it like it is road car engine.
Goals are set back in Japan. He's track side chief. That's what he does. He's showing you how the sausage is made. That is, troubleshooting/problem solving trackside.
