2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[Rodak]

Obviously, if the team has solutions prepared for Suzuka, there will be changes to both the chassis and the engine. Thinking that only Honda will bring the solutions is ridiculous. Both sides will make changes because the fault lies with both. It's just that AM will never admit it.

What is it in the chassis that could cause or atleast amplify these vibrations caused by the engine? Purely technically speaking. I assume you have something in mind as i understand your wording as super confident.

The chassis is built of very rigid carbon fiber laminates; such a structure has less ability to dampen vibrations than a more flexible structure; there is the possibility of harmonic vibration at some natural frequency in the structure from engine vibrations at certain rpm. The chassis has to be rigid for suspension control so that it doesn't act as a spring, altering suspension action. Think of a wineglass and how it can be made to vibrate by rubbing its rim vs a plastic drinking cup and how it will simply do nothing. The motor, which acts as a chassis member and carries suspension loads, is rigidly mounted to the monocoque and engine vibrations can be carried into the chassis.

[madridista]

Obviously, if the team has solutions prepared for Suzuka, there will be changes to both the chassis and the engine. Thinking that only Honda will bring the solutions is ridiculous. Both sides will make changes because the fault lies with both. It's just that AM will never admit it.

What is it in the chassis that could cause or atleast amplify these vibrations caused by the engine? Purely technically speaking. I assume you have something in mind as i understand your wording as super confident.

The chassis is built of very rigid carbon fiber laminates; such a structure has less ability to dampen vibrations than a more flexible structure; there is the possibility of harmonic vibration at some natural frequency in the structure from engine vibrations at certain rpm. The chassis has to be rigid for suspension control so that it doesn't act as a spring, altering suspension action. Think of a wineglass and how it can be made to vibrate by rubbing its rim vs a plastic drinking cup and how it will simply do nothing. The motor, which acts as a chassis member and carries suspension loads, is rigidly mounted to the monocoque and engine vibrations can be carried into the chassis.

I think I have the same understanding of the underlying physics. Im referring to the explanation of the chassis somehow being the reason for the extent of vibrations getting transmitted, when this is inherently unavoidable by nature, considering the structure/behaviour of Carbon Fibre, which is why i dont really understand in what sense AM's chassis is supposed to be different to the other teams in this regard. It simply resonates what it gets fed by the engine...?
I lack the technical nuance around the connection of engine and monocoque to properly judge, but this seems like bs to me.

What is it in the chassis that could cause or atleast amplify these vibrations caused by the engine? Purely technically speaking. I assume you have something in mind as i understand your wording as super confident.

I wrote earlier today that you dampen the vibrations from several places. It's not about creating the vibrations from tge chassis but helping to dampening them from the chassis.

Saw your post, can you provide some sources/literature so that we can read up on this? This would mean that the solution would be as simple as adding more cushion, which i dont believe is the case.

[diffuser]

Someone really believes Honda will be solve the vibrations in Japan? Honestly, for me, nothing will be change. I don't know anything about engines, but given the problems we've seen and their proportion, it doesn't seem like they'll be fixed even next year.

I also do not see them being fixed without an engine upgrade. Japan should be more of the same.

Why wouldn't they upgrade the engine? It's what they need to do.

They could and I don't know if things have changed since but going in Australia Honda was saying the problem isn't with the homologated parts.

[diffuser]

What is it in the chassis that could cause or atleast amplify these vibrations caused by the engine? Purely technically speaking. I assume you have something in mind as i understand your wording as super confident.

The chassis is built of very rigid carbon fiber laminates; such a structure has less ability to dampen vibrations than a more flexible structure; there is the possibility of harmonic vibration at some natural frequency in the structure from engine vibrations at certain rpm. The chassis has to be rigid for suspension control so that it doesn't act as a spring, altering suspension action. Think of a wineglass and how it can be made to vibrate by rubbing its rim vs a plastic drinking cup and how it will simply do nothing. The motor, which acts as a chassis member and carries suspension loads, is rigidly mounted to the monocoque and engine vibrations can be carried into the chassis.

I think I have the same understanding of the underlying physics. Im referring to the explanation of the chassis somehow being the reason for the extent of vibrations getting transmitted, when this is inherently unavoidable by nature, considering the structure/behaviour of Carbon Fibre, which is why i dont really understand in what sense AM's chassis is supposed to be different to the other teams in this regard. It simply resonates what it gets fed by the engine...?
I lack the technical nuance around the connection of engine and monocoque to properly judge, but this seems like bs to me.

What is it in the chassis that could cause or atleast amplify these vibrations caused by the engine? Purely technically speaking. I assume you have something in mind as i understand your wording as super confident.

I wrote earlier today that you dampen the vibrations from several places. It's not about creating the vibrations from tge chassis but helping to dampening them from the chassis.

Saw your post, can you provide some sources/literature so that we can read up on this? This would mean that the solution would be as simple as adding more cushion, which i dont believe is the case.

I don't have any specific references. Just different sources I read up on. I'm in no way an expert. I don't think it's simple. I think it's more like a flute, covering or uncovering a hole(s) changes the vibrations/sound.

[Rodak]

I think I have the same understanding of the underlying physics. Im referring to the explanation of the chassis somehow being the reason for the extent of vibrations getting transmitted, when this is inherently unavoidable by nature, considering the structure/behaviour of Carbon Fibre, which is why i dont really understand in what sense AM's chassis is supposed to be different to the other teams in this regard. It simply resonates what it gets fed by the engine...?
I lack the technical nuance around the connection of engine and monocoque to properly judge, but this seems like bs to me.

The chassis structure is not a simple layup of carbon fiber, it's a sandwich structure of carbon with a nomex honeycomb core that varies with stress requirements. There are many types of carbon prepreg with different load characteristics and weave patterns, as well as various fabric orientations during layup depending on design loads. For example, unidirectional fabric is used where loads need to be directed; there will be different construction where suspension loads are taken out, etc. Every chassis will be different and will have different characteristics and thus different reactions/harmonics to vibration. It's not 'bs', it's engineering.

[etusch]

Keeping in the mind that they are the guys doing this job, I think different PU structure of honda, maybe mounting points needed be different from more conservative ones. And going to the different way brings more room for unexpected issues to solve.

[zoroastar]

I think I have the same understanding of the underlying physics. Im referring to the explanation of the chassis somehow being the reason for the extent of vibrations getting transmitted, when this is inherently unavoidable by nature, considering the structure/behaviour of Carbon Fibre, which is why i dont really understand in what sense AM's chassis is supposed to be different to the other teams in this regard. It simply resonates what it gets fed by the engine...?
I lack the technical nuance around the connection of engine and monocoque to properly judge, but this seems like bs to me.

The chassis structure is not a simple layup of carbon fiber, it's a sandwich structure of carbon with a nomex honeycomb core that varies with stress requirements. There are many types of carbon prepreg with different load characteristics and weave patterns, as well as various fabric orientations during layup depending on design loads. For example, unidirectional fabric is used where loads need to be directed; there will be different construction where suspension loads are taken out, etc. Every chassis will be different and will have different characteristics and thus different reactions/harmonics to vibration. It's not 'bs', it's engineering.

its too bad that they cant just slap a mercedes power unit into the AM chassis and see if newey truely did build a harmonic tuning fork of a chassis like people in here claim. seems pretty unlikely to me. especially given hondas history of vibrations tearing things up in the past, and somehow not being picked up on their test benches in sakura.

[zoroastar]

They run it already at 100%. Have you learned nothing from 2015? This is it.

That's not true. There is no reason for them to run the PU at 100% when they have major reliability issues caused by vibrations

On the good news side? Only 1 race between now and May first!!! That's gonna feel like morphine. Whole month and a half...the whole off season!

did they ever say whether the cancellation of 2 races would delay ADUO? i thought that the rules stated "6 races" and not a specific date. it seems like it would be better for them to do the first allowances at the time that the 6th race would have occured since it was based off of a 24 race season, but i doubt if they even thought of races being cancelled when making the rules

[Jambier]

That's not true. There is no reason for them to run the PU at 100% when they have major reliability issues caused by vibrations

On the good news side? Only 1 race between now and May first!!! That's gonna feel like morphine. Whole month and a half...the whole off season!

did they ever say whether the cancellation of 2 races would delay ADUO? i thought that the rules stated "6 races" and not a specific date. it seems like it would be better for them to do the first allowances at the time that the 6th race would have occured since it was based off of a 24 race season, but i doubt if they even thought of races being cancelled when making the rules

Not decided yet.
Maybe they will keep the schedule or divide the 22 races

[mzso]

As per Honda the vibration fixes don't apply to the homologated parts. I suspect that those metal bars that connect to the heads and the section of the ICE that connects to the chassis have engine mount like characteristics that teams still use various damping strategies nearby.

Tuned mass dampers
Small masses attached near structural areas that absorb specific vibration frequencies. Example concept related to the well-known system once used by Renault F1 Team.

These can be installed:
- inside the engine cover
- on brackets near the PU
- sometimes on gearbox structures

Chassis damping
The carbon-fiber monocoque itself has some inherent damping characteristics. Teams can adjust:
- layup direction
- laminate thickness
- mounting inserts
to influence vibration transmission.

I don't think Honda said as such, or anything really. About the protection for the battery they did. But that does not fix the vibration

Tuned mass dampers were banned already in those Renault years. They can't use them.

I don't think the composite chassis has any potential at all, it's designed to be maximally rigid.

[Nikosar]

I’m not sure how Aston Martin was allowed to race if the car could potentially harm the drivers… hopefully under this outstanding circumstance they are allowed to carry upgrades..

[etusch]

Tuned mass dampers were banned already in those Renault years. They can't use them.

In 2026 year, mass damper system used by renault banned by the reason of it is a moving aero thing, aero pats should be static. After this mclaren was said about it we also have a damping system completely legal. I can't see any reason to ban such a thing if so, it is interesting.

[mzso]

Why wouldn't they upgrade the engine? It's what they need to do.

They could and I don't know if things have changed since but going in Australia Honda was saying the problem isn't with the homologated parts.

Do you have a reference for that? Because I didn't hear this.

I do not think the updates are going to be only engine parts, i do believe they are going to change the engine bay sorrounding materials to change their flexing characteristics, apart from that i'm not sure what can be done there.

I would like to think honda has balanced the crank and camshafts as best they could, and it would be a massive miskate not to take than into account, what does that leave us? firing order? diffent or greater piston speeds? i remember the Yamaha MotoGP engine to have a different firing order.

Well, if they can't fully solve it in the engine, they'll need to find something to damp vibrations

If they change the firing order they also to redesign the camshaft and maybe crankshaft, don't they?

I wouldn't be absolutely certain that they didn't make a mistake in balancing the engine. Knowing Porsche could make a similar mistake, around decade ago.

I’m not sure how Aston Martin was allowed to race if the car could potentially harm the drivers… hopefully under this outstanding circumstance they are allowed to carry upgrades..

There's nothing outstanding. It's a clear reliability issue which they were always allowed to fix since engines are homologated.

[Farnborough]

well this is what its like on full tanks. with hondas current and best countermeasure. they shouldn't be allowed to run. newey has built a nerve damage machine. also aren't the broadcast cameras meant to be stabilised. so its even worse than what thats shows?

You'll need to know about stabilisation to form opinion from this.

With fixed camera, its usually the optic to be stabilised and keep the image moving on the recording "plane" image chip. And so it gives the ability to "wobble" the lens to the effect of keeping the image stationary on the chip. It has its limitations in frequency etc, but primarily to counteract the pitch (vertical movement of camera) to smooth out the footage recorded. Thats likely to come from suspension movement of the whole chassis.

The example given, appears to have the camera shaking, as a whole unit, which the stabilization will not correct. It would need a camera rig type arrangement (however small, think drone type gimbal) to stop that. Could be there, but not a given.

There's no guarantee that the engine derived oscillations will be vertical though, and likely to be at frequency outside operating & correction sphere of capabilities provided by the camera device anyway.

In short, that's very highly unlikely to show with accuracy any of the vibration that's causing problems with structure and driver's experience.

[collindsilva]

We are getting more questions than answers from Race 2
Race1 - The vibrations were nominal (Lance stated the vibration reduced, Alonso stated no change in vibrations)
Race1 - Honda stated that they have solution for the vibrations and same was implemented for the race, was it permanent or temporary measures.
Race2 - Extreme vibration for Alonso, what abt Lance ?
Race2 - No updates from Honda assuming we carry forward the solution from race1

We have more vibration in race2, what changed, did they reduce the fuel limit or increase the PU output

Also, what is the cause of the vibration, is it ICE, MGU or battery..