2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[Leon Kennedy]

If they don't know the cause of the vibration, what makes you think that a complete redesigned of the ICE, would NOT just bring the same result?

Why wouldn't they. They've been testing and analyzing it for a month now, or more.

Remember, Honda claims it doesn't vibrate like this on their full chassis dyno.

With such crippling issues, I doubt they didn't notice any more vibrations than their previous PU compared to their previous design. More like they underestimated the importance, how the effect will be much magnified in a real car.
Perhaps they thought the vibrations are acceptable. Either that or their rig was immune to and/or absorbent of vibrations.

Hopefully they'll reveal it. In the past they were rather open about the issues, once they were fixed.

Exactly, they know very well where the cause is for me, they used a baroscope already in Bahrain inside the engine (so with a camera you see everything) And they had noticed something very damaging, Italian sources said. The point is not to understand the cause, but solving it is the main problem .

I wrote earlier today that you dampen the vibrations from several places. It's not about creating the vibrations from tge chassis but helping to dampening them from the chassis.

But that wouldn't fix the problem. As I understand everything behind the monocoque is mounted to the engine. All of which could be destroyed by excessive vibrations, including the engine itself.

In 2026 year, mass damper system used by renault banned by the reason of it is a moving aero thing, aero pats should be static. After this mclaren was said about it we also have a damping system completely legal. I can't see any reason to ban such a thing if so, it is interesting.

Uh, what? I can't make sense of this. It was banned a long time ago, and it never was aero. It was inside the Renaults' nose as I remember.
Not sure what you're referring to about McLaren.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bann ... h/4788122/

I had already talked about it in the technical forums, the Mass Damper system was not active aerodynamics in any case. It was a system integrated into the suspension and Renault had compiled a dossier of over 60 pages to justify this to the FIA. So much so that they were already aware of this (allowed) system in 2005 and their rivals are trying to imitate it. Only in mid-2006, after others failed to get it to work properly, did they file an official protest.
The point is that it was unfairly banned for this reason, not because it was illegal.

[Rodak]

You dont really want to dampen the steering, it needs to be sharp.

The steering is dampened to some extent by the power steering unit.

[API]

But this system only worked with Michelin tires.
Briatore had it tested after Michelin left and it didn't work on the Bridge. They were a different width and had a different sidewall.

[Nikosar]

Starting to think that having this fixed by the Japan race was a hope by Honda. My worst fears are that they haven't figured it out yet.

Japan is seems to optimistic. I remember Martin Brundle said it could take “around six months” before real improvements appear….

[diffuser]

If they don't know the cause of the vibration, what makes you think that a complete redesigned of the ICE, would NOT just bring the same result?

Why wouldn't they. They've been testing and analyzing it for a month now, or more.

Remember, Honda claims it doesn't vibrate like this on their full chassis dyno.

With such crippling issues, I doubt they didn't notice any more vibrations than their previous PU compared to their previous design. More like they underestimated the importance, how the effect will be much magnified in a real car.
Perhaps they thought the vibrations are acceptable. Either that or their rig was immune to and/or absorbent of vibrations.

Hopefully they'll reveal it. In the past they were rather open about the issues, once they were fixed.

Not sure how you think "redesigning" the ICE fixes this. If they don't know WHY it vibratrs, it's gonna happen again. If you don't know what is being done wrong, you can redesign it 50 times, if you don't change the design flaws that are causing the vibration, it will just vibrate again. To change the steps, you must understand the cause. You seem to think that if they redesign the ICE, magically they will not perform the same steps that causes this ICE/chassis to vibrate. That can only be done once you know the cause. Once you know the cause, depending on the cause, you correct by changing the design of whatever needs to be changed and redesign all the parts that the redesign causes reprecautions to.

[Petebass]

ALO said "3-4 months" so we can say until Hungary or after summer break, Netherlands, we wil see only little patches here and there.

[Tommy Cookers]

... You seem to think that if they redesign the ICE, magically they will not perform the same steps that causes this ICE/chassis to vibrate.....

3 pin 90 deg V6s have 'rocking' vibrations
the car is in places resonating
the resonance can increase the vibrations of the ICE
resonance can even occur at multiples or sub-multiples of a supposed resonant frequency

the MG is displaced behind and laterally from the ICE - increasing the inertia of the PU
the ICE;MG gearing increases the MG rotor inertia twentyfold
vibrations might cause or be caused by some oscillatory accelerations of the live MG rotor
(eg the MG trying to re-position itself in sympathy with some relative vibrational motion)
the MG rotor is for mechanical and even electrical reasons a torsional pendulum attached to the ICE crankshaft

there's some truth in the saying 'if it can vibrate - it will'

[Leon Kennedy]

ALO said "3-4 months" so we can say until Hungary or after summer break, Netherlands, we wil see only little patches here and there.

Yes, but every time they say different things and you can't understand anything anymore. Even before the pre-season tests I was already disappointed because at the presentation they said "after 7-10-12 races". Now they say 3-4 months, some say in 2027, in short it doesn't mean nothing.


I'm taking what happened to McLaren 2023 as a reference: they said they would solve the problems with the Baku update, well they had no success. Then suddenly in Austria they found 1.5 seconds.


In short, as far as I'm concerned, they don't even know when they'll solve their problems, and Stroll's statements about praying confirm what I think. They could solve all the problems in Japan right now or they could never solve them, that's the reality.

[vorticism]

Strulović is no Mateschitz. It's a shame to see Alonso's potential squandered yet again.

[sn809]

I wrote earlier today that you dampen the vibrations from several places. It's not about creating the vibrations from tge chassis but helping to dampening them from the chassis.

One of the challenges being that it is mass and flexibility in a structure that usually oppose and absorb vibration/frequency, both of which are specifically reduced within a F1 chassis installation.

Light weight, high modulus are key attributes of CF materials, making them so desirable in this construction. Damping of anything is not their fortè.

How do people come up with "it's Aston's fault" knowing this. The Chassis is not meant do do vibration dampening.

Please read the 2 posts before this. Chassis is constructed in layers which remive the vibration harmonics. Its Aston's fault they were so late.

[diffuser]

... You seem to think that if they redesign the ICE, magically they will not perform the same steps that causes this ICE/chassis to vibrate.....

all 3 pin V6s have 'rocking' (conical ?) vibrations (as do 6 pins)
the car is in places resonating
the resonance can increase the vibrations of the ICE
resonance can even occur at multiples or sub-multiples of a supposed resonant frequency

the MG is displaced behind and laterally from the ICE - increasing the inertia of the PU
the ICE;MG gearing increases the MG rotor inertia twentyfold
vibrations might cause or be caused by some oscillatory accelerations of the live MG rotor
(eg the MG trying to re-position itself in sympathy with some relative vibrational motion)
the MG rotor is for mechanical and even electrical reasons a torsional pendulum attached to the ICE crankshaft

there's some truth in the saying 'if it can vibrate - it will'

We have
- 3 pins
- 4 strokes means 720 degrees 720/6 is 120 degrees per piston.
- the 2 piston on each pin need to be 360 degrees apart.
- pin1 0 and 360 ----factor in (90 D V) 0 and 270
- pin2 120 and 480 --factor in (90 D V) 120 and 390
- pin3 240 and 600 --factor in (90 D V) 240 and 510

Fireing order
Cyl Deg Distance since last fire.
C1 - 0 Deg, 210 Deg
C2 - 120 Deg, 120 Deg
C3 - 240 Deg, 120 Deg
C4 - 270 Deg, 30 Deg
C5 - 390 Deg, 120 Deg
C6 - 510 Deg, 120 Deg

That's not the way they'd do it ?


That hurts my head when I have to fracture in a 90 degree V.....

[Rasoose]

I’m not sure how Aston Martin was allowed to race if the car could potentially harm the drivers… hopefully under this outstanding circumstance they are allowed to carry upgrades..

Anyone who's ridden a motorcycle long-distance has probably experienced similar, I wouldn't worry too much about any long-term/permanent impact.
That's not to say it shouldn't be a priority but it will take time, and in the meantime they can keep doing laps with plenty of breaks.

With the MGU-K being positioned the way it is (transferring the ICE vibration much closer to the battery & cockpit) the solution may be a partial redesign of the MGU-K *and* chassis - adding bracing to the 'floating' end of MGU-K, attached to ICE, and adding room for the bracing at the back of the chassis + avoiding any direct contact between MGU-K and survival cell. I wouldn't expect this to be done by the next round.

I'm not confident that going back to Honda's previous MGU-K placement (or similar) would even be possible this season, and that's if the team would even want to do that.

[basti313]

If it is mechanical vibration they still need mechanical changes on parts that are moving...as far as I can see it, this is not even allowed. So what do they want to change till Japan?

I'm tired of reading this. Reliability updates can always be pushed. There's hardly a clearer reliability issue than this.

Not within the timeframe of Japan. There are clear minimum timeframes to submit the request. Even if they have a fixed engine now on the dyno and it works...it would be a stretch to get the changes approved and the two engines for Miami in time.

[Rasoose]

well this is what its like on full tanks. with hondas current and best countermeasure. they shouldn't be allowed to run. newey has built a nerve damage machine. also aren't the broadcast cameras meant to be stabilised. so its even worse than what thats shows?

You'll need to know about stabilisation to form opinion from this.

With fixed camera, its usually the optic to be stabilised and keep the image moving on the recording "plane" image chip. And so it gives the ability to "wobble" the lens to the effect of keeping the image stationary on the chip. It has its limitations in frequency etc, but primarily to counteract the pitch (vertical movement of camera) to smooth out the footage recorded. Thats likely to come from suspension movement of the whole chassis.

The example given, appears to have the camera shaking, as a whole unit, which the stabilization will not correct. It would need a camera rig type arrangement (however small, think drone type gimbal) to stop that. Could be there, but not a given.

There's no guarantee that the engine derived oscillations will be vertical though, and likely to be at frequency outside operating & correction sphere of capabilities provided by the camera device anyway.

In short, that's very highly unlikely to show with accuracy any of the vibration that's causing problems with structure and driver's experience.

Thank you for pointing that out. I noticed a similar 'vibration' a few times over the years on Verstappen's onboard when it was Red Bull Honda.

I think I started noticing on rare occasions back in '21 but can't be certain, possibly as early as 2020. I know for sure I noticed it once or twice in '23. Only when preparing for a start, and it wasn't consistent so I assumed it was more likely a variation in the cameras - that some would pick it up and others would dampen it out.

[Mattchu]

Iv`e been wondering about a few things...Do the vibrations still occur to an unexpectable level when the car is stationary and is just sat there being revved to the highest range, or do we think the car has to be moving at speed?

Can they utilize a rolling road?

If it does vibrate when stationary, can Honda fit new parts to an engine and them test them without actually moving the car? Because there`s no more testing until next year, this seems lke the only feesable way they can ascertain whether any new fixes or re-designs are having the desired affect, without having to actually turn a wheel with the car, thereby not wasting precious track time!

I`m really hoping Honda and Aston Martin get on top of this quick time, I want to see their car out on track battling, not just doing little bits here and there...