2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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vorticism wrote:
26 Mar 2026, 22:37
As is often pointed out, it took four years for RBR to become a top team. We are in year one of Newey at AMR. I was half expecting quicker turnaround, owing to AMR’s budget and supposedly excellent facilities. That said, RBR started during a stable engine formula, with engines from an established engine makers, at a time when the engine formula was much simpler and provided engine parity.

If Honda really do use motorsport as a proving-ground for junior engineers, that would explain why they’re starting from scratch again. Nothing wrong with that, it makes sense from a certain perspective. Motorsport is optional and not always profitable. So they use it as a university and not so much as an advertisement. Whether or not AMR were aware of this, is a question. Newey suggested they werent’ aware of this, although maybe they did and that was just Newey saving face. If AMR see their rejuvination as taking several years, then they might actually have been okay with Honda starting from scratch again.

How could AMR have assessed in either case? They observe facilites? Sure. They observe preliminary results? Sure. They audit/assess the staffing? I doubt that.

In any case, what choice did AMR have?

Ferrari: an Aston Martin Ferrari would have been a conflict of interest even moreso than an Aston Martin Honda or a Cadillac Ferrari?
RBPT: I suppose the entire point of RBPT was to keep everything in-house to avoid repeating a 2014 scenario, thus leaving no interesting in selling engines to outsiders. Any other reasons?
Mercedes: seems like it would have been a no-brainer, they were already a supplier to AMR; are AMR saving money with Honda’s offer? If so, does that not explain everything?
Audi: what would have stopped this? Might have made sense in terms of marketing. AM road cars have used Mercedes engines and could also use Audi engines to good effect.
I think AMR will go back to Merc eventually. AML is partly own by Merc.

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etusch
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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vas_04614 wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 05:43
Jak said vibrations are there but whether there is proper improvement over last race we have to wait I guess
yes I also heard that but did he drow the car before to countermeasures ? If not, he is just saying that there is vibration. So what Alo will say is worth to read.

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ispano6
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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mzso wrote:
26 Mar 2026, 18:06
ispano6 wrote:
26 Mar 2026, 16:36
In any case, nothing will improve without fixes to the car. The fact that it runs with less vibration with more fuel in the car is a clear indicator the chassis lacks rigidity in key places of the chassis.
I think your grasping at straws here, trying to find blame elsewhere. I highly doubt AM decided to make the monocoque bendy.
Actually the opposite was said, carbon-fiber composite is very rigid, so it transmits all of it.
Grasping at straws? You don't think like an engineer then.
From Yasuaki Asaki's active F1 column, in his own words.
その推測が当たっていたら、オーストラリアGPと中国GPの開幕2連戦はおそらくあとづけの対策になったと思います。私の経験的に短時間での効果的な振動対策は、ダイナミックダンパー(動吸振器)のあとづけや、つっかえ棒のような部品追加での剛性アップです。

"If that guess was correct, the opening two rounds at the Australian GP and Chinese GP were probably retrofitted countermeasures. From my experience, effective short-term vibration countermeasures include retrofitting dynamic dampers (tuned mass dampers) or increasing rigidity by adding parts like struts."
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... 27/f1gppu/

Full translation:
Depending on the results of the Japan GP, Honda PU's 'abnormal vibration' problem could be prolonged... Yasuaki Asaki speculates

Under the new regulations, a system called "ADUO (Additional Development Upgrade Opportunity)" will be introduced. The PU (Power Unit) is homologated (certified) before the start of the season, and from that point on, updates to improve performance are generally not allowed. However, the FIA will measure the performance of the PU every six races, and PUs that are significantly lower in performance compared to other manufacturers will be given the opportunity for additional updates.

It has been said that ADUO might also apply to Honda, but if I were someone in the FIA, I wouldn't do such a thing. Improvements related to reliability, which prevent failures from occurring, are already recognized in principle.

Moreover, Honda has not properly run since the pre-season tests. Even Honda's own staff may not fully understand the actual capabilities of Honda's PU. In a situation where they don't even know how much power they have lost compared to their rivals, how could they possibly extend a helping hand?

"First of all, I think it would be better not to break it so that I can finish the race," I would say if I were an FIA person. After you can run properly, you will look at the data and decide whether to rescue or not.

However, if Honda can solve the problem of abnormal vibration, Aston Martin expects to form a top group with Mercedes and Ferrari.

I have no doubt about the abilities of Honda's juniors. They won multiple titles with Red Bull and set an unprecedented record of 21 wins in 22 races in 2023. I believe that if you are not a person with ability, you will not be able to record such an overwhelming win rate.

But why is it that a group that has competed for the championship many times until last year is in a situation where it is not even possible to finish the race? It is not due to the ability of individual engineers. I can only think that there was a mistake in judgment on the part of the leader who coordinated the development.

Leaders may have overestimated their abilities and decided to accept the idealism advocated by Adrian Newey in a last-minute schedule. So as a result of changing things that didn't need to be changed, development was delayed. My guess is that it was also late to grasp the vibration problem, which led to the current situation.
 Even if you decide to drastically change the PU, I think you have to create a place to go back before doing it. If the new one doesn't work, I'll go back here. If you haven't prepared it, you can't call yourself a professional. It may be that the overall management of development, including such decisions, was not well managed, such as where and how much to allocate people, money, and time.

The PU is the source of vibration (not specifically ICE or MGU), literally the cause that generates vibration, and the battery becomes the receiver of that vibration. When driving, intense vibrations occur, causing damage to the battery. How to quickly solve this problem is now being questioned of Honda's engineers.

I think there was only so much that could be done before the season opener at the Australian GP, given that sufficient testing could not be done during the off-season test runs. If they had been able to run properly from the start of testing, there might have been time to think of different countermeasures, but it seemed that the problem was clearly recognized just before the opening.

If that assumption is correct, the first two races of the season, the Australian GP and the Chinese GP, likely involved retroactive countermeasures. From my experience, effective vibration countermeasures in a short period are retrofitting dynamic dampers or stiffness enhancement by adding parts like braces.

A dynamic damper is a component made of rubber and weights, attached to vibrating parts to reduce vibration. It is a technology also used in production cars, and if the symptoms can be mitigated with a temporary measure like a dynamic damper, the development delay can be limited to a few months.

I was focusing on the perspective of whether these measures would allow the race to be completed at the second round, the Chinese GP, but both Fernando Alonso and Lance Stroll retired. In my view, it seemed that the retroactive measures were not sufficiently effective. It seems that further updates will be made for the Japanese GP (March 27–29), but if that still doesn’t work, a major revision will be necessary. Depending on the situation, it may be necessary to redesign the car itself. If that happens, it would be a significant setback. Normally, it might take time on the order of half a year or a year.

Why did vibrations occur only with Aston Martin Honda, which have not appeared even in inexperienced teams like Audi or Red Bull Powertrains (RBPT)? It is necessary to verify the cause from photos showing the arrangement of each PU part and how it is attached to the car body and identify the fundamental problem. This process requires the sense of engineers, and I think it has become a situation where the development capability of HRC (Honda Racing) is being questioned.

Regarding the lack of power of the internal combustion engine, it will come after vibration countermeasures, but it may also need to be promoted simultaneously by another team.

In F1, due to the worsening situation in the Middle East, the cancellation of the fourth round Bahrain GP and the fifth round Saudi Arabia GP, which were scheduled after the Japanese GP, was announced, creating a five-week interval. For Honda, this allows for a bit of time, but it is unclear whether the issue can be resolved in such a short period.

The occurrence of abnormal vibrations is an event that is happening with only one team, Aston Martin, so I think we will investigate the truth while comparing it with other cars. However, looking at the current Aston Martin Honda, it reminds me of the situation of Mercedes when they introduced the zero-pod.

Mercedes, starting from the beginning of 2022, aimed to improve aerodynamic performance and also adopted the zero-pod, which made the sidepods as compact as possible. They tried this in an attempt to outdo other cars, but the car suffered from intense vertical oscillations, known as porpoising, and could not demonstrate the competitiveness they had hoped for.

As a result, it took Mercedes about a year and a half to abandon the zero-pod concept, but I hope Honda does not repeat the same mistake. I sincerely wish that, by cooperating with Aston Martin, they can solve the problem as quickly as possible and be able to compete in the position they rightfully should.

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etusch
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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ispano6 wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 09:46

The occurrence of abnormal vibrations is an event that is happening with only one team, Aston Martin, so I think we will investigate the truth while comparing it with other cars. However, looking at the current Aston Martin Honda, it reminds me of the situation of Mercedes when they introduced the zero-pod.

Mercedes, starting from the beginning of 2022, aimed to improve aerodynamic performance and also adopted the zero-pod, which made the sidepods as compact as possible. They tried this in an attempt to outdo other cars, but the car suffered from intense vertical oscillations, known as porpoising, and could not demonstrate the competitiveness they had hoped for.

As a result, it took Mercedes about a year and a half to abandon the zero-pod concept, but I hope Honda does not repeat the same mistake. I sincerely wish that, by cooperating with Aston Martin, they can solve the problem as quickly as possible and be able to compete in the position they rightfully should.
I don't know how it is true but when Newey changed to concept of the redbull they said they are trying Merc's zero concept in a different way and both doesn't worked. Redbull still could not solve the issues with the car. So probably both side sucked.

In you post there is a statement thay sees audi as a new car. But this formula is quite close to LMP1 cars. Only minus point for audi is that they run diesel engine instead of gasoline one. But this also brought an advantage to them. They very well know how to make it lightweight. So their car is well matches the weight limit. they have experience on everything except gasoline engine for F1.
2013-spec R18 e-tron quattro

Audi R18 e-tron quattro (Overall & LMP1 class winner, 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans)
The R18 e-tron quattro is a hybrid version of the R18 ultra, with a 500 kJ flywheel accumulator system designed by Williams Hybrid Power, two 74 kW; 100 hp (101 PS) Bosch Motor Generator Units driving the front wheels with water-cooled integrated power electronics, providing the car with four wheel drive (quattro), and a smaller 58-litre fuel tank. The quattro system, as per the regulations, is available only at speeds above 120 km/h (75 mph).[7][10]

The e-tron has six automatic modes that are driver-selectable on the steering wheel. The modes manage engine mapping, short bursts accelerating from corners, quattro four wheel drive, wet weather, etc. Allan McNish said "I don't have to press a button ... It does it automatically ... It is like traction control."[11]

2014-spec R18 e-tron quattro
Changes from 2013 R18 e-tron quattro include the introduction of blue laser beam backlights with a yellow phosphor crystal lens complementing the LED headlights, a revised V6 TDI engine with an electric turbocharger, upgrades to the flywheel accumulator system and an exhaust heat recovery system. The system captures the thermal energy from the exhaust and can add power to either the turbocharger or the flywheel accumulator system. Audi later opted not to race with the second Energy Retrieval System, which is known as a Motor Generator Unit-Heat [MGU-H] in Formula One, because it did not result in the performance gain engineers had hoped for and was therefore considered an unnecessary risk to take.[12] The aerodynamics have been heavily revised in accordance with the new rules: the width is reduced by 10 cm, the height is increased by 20 mm and there are a new set of front wings. The exhaust-blown diffuser on the 2013 model has been banned and removed. The safety monocoque has been strengthened with additional fabric. Wheel tethers and extra crash structures are also added to the car. Finally, there are numerous smaller upgrades to vision and ergonomics to improve drivability.
The cars hybrid system is also all new, the GKN (nee Williams) Hybrid Power electro mechanical flywheel energy storage solution has been replaced by a battery electric system. “The flywheel accumulator definitely proved viable for the lower energy classes,” explains Thomas Laudenbach, Head of Electrics, Electronics and Energy Systems at Audi Sport. “But due to the fact that we now have to process even more energy than before, a technology change suggested itself.” Audi has stepped up from a 4MJ system to a 6MJ system.

https://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/audi-r18-2016/

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ispano6
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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The vibrations generated by the ICE (internal combustion engine) are not particularly significant on their own, even when compared to ICEs from previous years. Even in VTT (bench test) conditions, where the engine is connected to Aston Martin’s dummy monocoque and gearbox, there are no vibrations at levels that would be considered problematic.

However, once all the components are installed and the car is actually driven on the track, the vibrations are amplified.

Initially, the battery—which is directly connected to the ICE and the monocoque—was damaged, and drivers also reported experiencing vibrations. To ensure reliability, “vibration countermeasures for the battery” were urgently implemented and achieved some success. At the Chinese Grand Prix, the only issue that occurred throughout the weekend was a power supply problem experienced by Lance Stroll during the race (the cause is currently under investigation).

However, since no measures have been taken to reduce vibrations originating from the chassis itself, it is only natural that drivers continue to suffer from vibration issues.

There are limits to how much vibration from the ICE itself can be suppressed, as mentioned earlier, since the vibration levels from the ICE are already within normal ranges. If cockpit vibrations are truly severe enough to prevent drivers from finishing the race, it is obvious that relying solely on ICE-side measures will not lead to a fundamental solution.

“We are working together [with Aston Martin and Honda] to make improvements. We are discussing what the optimal measures are to mitigate the current issues and are moving forward with improvements together. Ideally, we would address the root cause, but what we are working on with Honda is what we can achieve within the limited time available.”
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... /17/f1_20/

The fact that Alonso says his hands AND feet lost sensation is a bit suspect. His feet? In any case, there are many who doubt that the issue is solely Honda's doing. For it would be arrogance to not question the chassis package as a major contributor to the effects.

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diffuser
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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ispano6 wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 10:56
The vibrations generated by the ICE (internal combustion engine) are not particularly significant on their own, even when compared to ICEs from previous years. Even in VTT (bench test) conditions, where the engine is connected to Aston Martin’s dummy monocoque and gearbox, there are no vibrations at levels that would be considered problematic.

However, once all the components are installed and the car is actually driven on the track, the vibrations are amplified.

Initially, the battery—which is directly connected to the ICE and the monocoque—was damaged, and drivers also reported experiencing vibrations. To ensure reliability, “vibration countermeasures for the battery” were urgently implemented and achieved some success. At the Chinese Grand Prix, the only issue that occurred throughout the weekend was a power supply problem experienced by Lance Stroll during the race (the cause is currently under investigation).

However, since no measures have been taken to reduce vibrations originating from the chassis itself, it is only natural that drivers continue to suffer from vibration issues.

There are limits to how much vibration from the ICE itself can be suppressed, as mentioned earlier, since the vibration levels from the ICE are already within normal ranges. If cockpit vibrations are truly severe enough to prevent drivers from finishing the race, it is obvious that relying solely on ICE-side measures will not lead to a fundamental solution.

“We are working together [with Aston Martin and Honda] to make improvements. We are discussing what the optimal measures are to mitigate the current issues and are moving forward with improvements together. Ideally, we would address the root cause, but what we are working on with Honda is what we can achieve within the limited time available.”
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... /17/f1_20/

The fact that Alonso says his hands AND feet lost sensation is a bit suspect. His feet? In any case, there are many who doubt that the issue is solely Honda's doing. For it would be arrogance to not question the chassis package as a major contributor to the effects.
thx for the translations.

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Given that they are not progressing, I believe a "return to normal" meaning finishing races and scoring some points will now likely be for the last 4 or 5 races.

I don't believe anything will happen before summer break. Then maybe they could start their season properly

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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I've read reports that Adrian Newey told Honda that he wanted a very low center of gravity engine with a lower crankshaft in the block. Do any of you know if this is true or not ?

If it is true, I think engine manufacturers should tell aero designers to buzz off. Would Adrian Newey like it if Honda told Adrian how to design the aero/chassis ?

McLaren won the driver's title and constructor's title in 2025 by building their car around the Mercedes engine as they are a customer team.


Honda needs to supply more teams in F1 to gather more data and just focus on building the most reliable powerful engine and let teams build their cars around it.

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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1 second slower than a Cadillac is straight up embarrassing. Unless they have been running detuned and will crank up the PU tomorrow, they need some serious work in the 5 week break.

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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FNTC wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 13:55
1 second slower than a Cadillac is straight up embarrassing. Unless they have been running detuned and will crank up the PU tomorrow, they need some serious work in the 5 week break.
Alonso said the car is the same as before. No progress.
But the goal is to finish the race because it is Honda home race.

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Honda Porsche fan wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 13:22
I've read reports that Adrian Newey told Honda that he wanted a very low center of gravity engine with a lower crankshaft in the block. Do any of you know if this is true or not ?

If it is true, I think engine manufacturers should tell aero designers to buzz off. Would Adrian Newey like it if Honda told Adrian how to design the aero/chassis ?

McLaren won the driver's title and constructor's title in 2025 by building their car around the Mercedes engine as they are a customer team.


Honda needs to supply more teams in F1 to gather more data and just focus on building the most reliable powerful engine and let teams build their cars around it.
The regs require a 90 degree V6 and dictate bore and stroke. That pretty much limits what you can do. You can play around with the mounting but that is limited as well cause it has to be standardized across all teams. The only things you really can play around with is stuff that attaches to the ICE like MGU-K, where cooling gets connect to it, turbo. etc .....Auxiliaries. The regs dictate where the MGU-K's transmission has to connect to the ICE's crankshaft.

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Honda Porsche fan wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 13:22
I've read reports that Adrian Newey told Honda that he wanted a very low center of gravity engine with a lower crankshaft in the block. Do any of you know if this is true or not ?

If it is true, I think engine manufacturers should tell aero designers to buzz off. Would Adrian Newey like it if Honda told Adrian how to design the aero/chassis ?

McLaren won the driver's title and constructor's title in 2025 by building their car around the Mercedes engine as they are a customer team.


Honda needs to supply more teams in F1 to gather more data and just focus on building the most reliable powerful engine and let teams build their cars around it.
They use dry sump and everyone makes it as low as possible. Only thing can make difference is cutting from crank webs. In this case vibration root was obvious and would be identified at test bench

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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Honda Porsche fan wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 13:22
I've read reports that Adrian Newey told Honda that he wanted a very low center of gravity engine with a lower crankshaft in the block. Do any of you know if this is true or not ?

If it is true, I think engine manufacturers should tell aero designers to buzz off. Would Adrian Newey like it if Honda told Adrian how to design the aero/chassis ?

McLaren won the driver's title and constructor's title in 2025 by building their car around the Mercedes engine as they are a customer team.


Honda needs to supply more teams in F1 to gather more data and just focus on building the most reliable powerful engine and let teams build their cars around it.
When in doubt read the rules! From the 2026 F1 Technical Regulations:
5.7.3 The centre of gravity of the power unit must be above Z=200. The parts considered are listed
as “ICE” and “TC” in the “PU MASS GROUP” column of Appendix 3, with the exception of
items 6 (ICE intake air system components), 20 (ICE-mounted electrical components), 27
(MGU-K Torque sensor), 38 (Powerbox), 39 (General electrical devices) 65 and 66 (PU air
valve system equipment).

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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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FNTC wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 13:55
1 second slower than a Cadillac is straight up embarrassing. Unless they have been running detuned and will crank up the PU tomorrow, they need some serious work in the 5 week break.
You expected Cadillac not to be able to develop their car? The deficit is only going to grow the first half of the season.

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etusch
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Re: 2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

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FNTC wrote:
27 Mar 2026, 13:55
1 second slower than a Cadillac is straight up embarrassing. Unless they have been running detuned and will crank up the PU tomorrow, they need some serious work in the 5 week break.
I don't know how do you think. Cadillac uses Ferrari engine, engine makes straight line speed. And ferrari is never deperated from F1, they have very experienced engineers, many time reference point at the engine. And now they also behind merc.