2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[diffuser]

The layout of the Aston Martin is not the reason the Honda engine is down over 100bph. Honda's philosophy of putting inexperienced engineers in positions for a new project is detrimental in a sport as competitive and high pedigree as F1. You think Honda would have learned by now.

I don't want to defend Honda but how do you know how much horse power Honda PU is down on everyone else when they've never run it at full power?

SSJ4 posted that some in the paddock put the Honda engine down by 100kW or 136bph, and several Aston Martin team members already said they would not pickup anywhere near as much people think they would at full power.

Whether the real deficit is 80, 100, or 120bhp at full power... Aston Martin is not responsible for the significant power gap, and I am tired of apologists reframing that the Honda organisation is a hapless victim because Newey made some requests with the architectural layout that may or may not be contributing to the present vibrations.

Considering that they're limiting the use of the MGU-K, you're probably talking about being down 500 HP for large portions of the lap. The ICE is detuned and RPM limited, which adds to the defict. How you and paddock wonders convert that into a HP numbers you can understand, I don't know.

How much power they're down is so hard to calculate it isn't funny. You're numbers make it sound like this is a v8 ICE and someone has cut the fuel pressure by 10%. It just isn't that simple.

[Brahmal]

Aston Martin is not responsible for the significant power gap, and I am tired of apologists reframing that the Honda organisation is a hapless victim because Newey made some requests with the architectural layout that may or may not be contributing to the present vibrations.

A failure this comprehensive requires many errors by all parties involved! Mr. Asaki's testimony, posted on page 225, rings mostly true to me. If he has any bias it seems to be in favor of the boots-on-the-ground engineers, because his assessment of the management on both sides is rightly scathing. Honda probably bears the lion's share of blame, but whether the blame pie is split 55:45 or 75:25 doesn't matter anymore. How they both recover this situation together will tell the story.

[diffuser]

Aston Martin is not responsible for the significant power gap, and I am tired of apologists reframing that the Honda organisation is a hapless victim because Newey made some requests with the architectural layout that may or may not be contributing to the present vibrations.

A failure this comprehensive requires many errors by all parties involved! Mr. Asaki's testimony, posted on page 225, rings mostly true to me. If he has any bias it seems to be in favor of the boots-on-the-ground engineers, because his assessment of the management on both sides is rightly scathing. Honda probably bears the lion's share of blame, but whether the blame pie is split 55:45 or 75:25 doesn't matter anymore. How they both recover this situation together will tell the story.

I would agree with that.

[peewon]

The packaging being the tightest possible is a desire of each and every designer/team. This isn't unique to Newey or Aston. If the PU manufacturer cannot ensure reliability at certain specs, they need to push back and demand concessions to ensure reliability. Designers would be more than happy to concede a few millimetres in size and layout instead on an engine thats not even functional.

Also, this is the second time this has happened with Honda with an entirely different team. So clearly there are some gaps in their ecosystem for testing their designs initially. At that time also the F1 media was flooded with how McLaren wanted some size zero concept. As if it's not a desire of every team to package it as tightly as possible.

[peewon]

You'd think Aston Martin would have learned from McLaren's failure. Or more like the Honda haters trying to always spin it on them.

Being an independent team is a seductive allure for any ambitious team. If Merc and Ferrari refused to supply them, they would be stuck with engines from Audi as per F1 rules. So they had no choice. They also probably didn't think it would happen again (issues at the start) and otherwise Honda is a good manufacturer.

Why would anyone want to randomly hate a manufacturer? Makes no sense. More like we think the problem lies in a certain place and people who want to defend Honda no matter what get upset about it.

We could be wrong and it may not be Honda's fault and if that turns out to be the case, apologies in advance to Honda. L

It also doesn't mean Honda is a bad manufacturer that cannot do anything right. Just that it looks like they dropped the ball on this occasion. I won't be surprised if they are good in even 2-3 years. Just that they have an issue at the start of regulations

[Honda Porsche fan]

Any engine manufacturer has a responsibility to the customer teams they supply engines to who rely on the Constructor's Championship for earnings and sponsors who demand their cars are at the front to make sure the engine is reliable, durable and powerful at the first race.

Making customer teams develop an uncompetitive engine during the season at the back of the grid is selfish, unethical, and dangerous.

This is not a problem with other engine manufacturers, just Honda.

If Honda was running their own factory team 100% in-house where they take on the profit and debt all on themselves then this wouldn't be such a big problem but, they are supplying a customer team (Aston Martin) engines.

[mzso]

You'd think Aston Martin would have learned from McLaren's failure. Or more like the Honda haters trying to always spin it on them.

The layout of the Aston Martin is not the reason the Honda engine is down over 100bph. Honda's philosophy of putting inexperienced engineers in positions for a new project is detrimental in a sport as competitive and high pedigree as F1. You think Honda would have learned by now.

They've learned. They just want it that way. It's their philosophy and, for them , it works.

It works horribly. If they are to rotate people they should do it gradually. And not at all before a crucial event, like a regulation change in F1. Instead they should at least temporarily bring everyone relevant on board. And when things settlet they can continue changing people.

[mzso]

Two parts that don't vibrate at all, unless they're broken.

It resonates the vibrations and that becomes a problem due to its location. If you google "MGU-K vibrations" you'll get a variety of sources ranging from Italian F1 media to Gary Anderson and other tech youtubers alluding to the same thing.

FYI from Honda's own page about their McHonda engine:

The MGU-K also had issues due to the drive gear train being moved from the rear to the front, causing resonance....

These problems included lubrication issues due to the new shape of the oil tank which sacrificed space due to the compressor protruding forward, lack of durability of the shaft connecting the compressor and turbine, and with the layout change, resonance caused by the MGU-K.

Everything connected to the ICE is exposed to vibration and can resonate. Why do you point the finger at these specifically? Particularly the turbo. The K with it sticking out forward is a tad more likely to be a problem. But ultimately I think the engine just produces too much vibrations at precisely the wrong frequencies?

[mzso]

You'd think Aston Martin would have learned from McLaren's failure. Or more like the Honda haters trying to always spin it on them.

Yeah, they should have learned not to trust them, and should have kept a very close eye on them.

[diffuser]

You'd think Aston Martin would have learned from McLaren's failure. Or more like the Honda haters trying to always spin it on them.

Yeah, they should have learned not to trust them, and should have kept a very close eye on them.

I agree with this . The only thing I would add is you should always do this with any 3ird party vendor, not just because Honda has a tarnished reputation with new regs. You need to manage everything. If you don't, you endup with unwelcome surprises.

[Jaymz]

I just thought it was obvious that the batteries had issues. They have a workaround for the batteries now too.

A workaround to finish last - garbage. The next few years are doomed for AM unless they dump this useless Honda trash into the north sea. Imagine the uproar if any other team had missed so much running time. Well, we don't have to imagine because Williams and McLaren missed a few days and it was game over according to some. Now apply that to the reality of the AM position. Newey is not a magician, there isn't anything he can do to come back from this. I find it amazing that any team trusted Honda to make a new PU by themselves.

Well, they'll have a workaround for both the batteries and the drivers for Miami. We'll see if they can turn up the wick then.

I’ve been down that road. The responsibility is shared. Even if the vibration is solely on Honda, the AMR26 was so late that it gave Honda no time to test the PU on the chassis. In future years, once they’ve straightened this out, they won’t have this issue, and future AMR## cars won’t face it either—even if they’re late. This year, though, with Honda being new to AMF1 GP, Newey joining late, delays on multiple fronts, the new regulations, and AMF1 Gp/Honda being the sole PU partnership for Honda, it created a perfect storm.

I don't get the constant posts of hope/cope and blame shifting. Sometimes it is just as simple as one organisation getting it wrong (again) with nothing else needed.

To put it simply, if AM had any other PU, they would not be in this situation. Even if it was "new" to them.

[aMessageToCharlie]

The layout of the Aston Martin is not the reason the Honda engine is down over 100bph. Honda's philosophy of putting inexperienced engineers in positions for a new project is detrimental in a sport as competitive and high pedigree as F1. You think Honda would have learned by now.

They've learned. They just want it that way. It's their philosophy and, for them , it works.

It works horribly. If they are to rotate people they should do it gradually. And not at all before a crucial event, like a regulation change in F1. Instead they should at least temporarily bring everyone relevant on board. And when things settlet they can continue changing people.

Exactly. What is it worth that some of their most experienced engineers are now helping improve some commuter econoboxes by a few % while they completely embarrass the brand on the biggest automotive stage in the world.

Companies pay hundreds of millions to have their logo and name on a winning car to benefit from the halo effect and cause positive associations with their brand. Meanwhile Honda builts a reputation for building unreliable and slow engines. If that was the plan, then it definitely works.

[diffuser]

They've learned. They just want it that way. It's their philosophy and, for them , it works.

It works horribly. If they are to rotate people they should do it gradually. And not at all before a crucial event, like a regulation change in F1. Instead they should at least temporarily bring everyone relevant on board. And when things settlet they can continue changing people.

Exactly. What is it worth that some of their most experienced engineers are now helping improve some commuter econoboxes by a few % while they completely embarrass the brand on the biggest automotive stage in the world.

Companies pay hundreds of millions to have their logo and name on a winning car to benefit from the halo effect and cause positive associations with their brand. Meanwhile Honda builts a reputation for building unreliable and slow engines. If that was the plan, then it definitely works.

Don't forget, a company like Honda has a R&D budget in high single digit Billions of $. Why they decide not to fund this product for 2 years is beyond me.

[ispano6]

You'd think Aston Martin would have learned from McLaren's failure. Or more like the Honda haters trying to always spin it on them.

Yeah, they should have learned not to trust them, and should have kept a very close eye on them.

I agree with this . The only thing I would add is you should always do this with any 3ird party vendor, not just because Honda has a tarnished reputation with new regs. You need to manage everything. If you don't, you endup with unwelcome surprises.

Oh wow yeah trust issues. Honda are such liars. They break their promises. What promises? To Who? Some fans who feel they are owed something at the beginning of a new Formula. Many fail to realize Honda didn't say "Hey we're back, any takers?" Mr. Stroll asked/convinced them to come back/stay, to join their project.
So it really doesn't matter what you guys think. It's what Mr. Stroll knows and how he sees his vision panning out. This team just simply isn't built around Alonso like someone here want it to be. It never will be. And for those who keep thinking Honda is to blame, the similarities in the ----show that McLaren was and how mismanaged AMR has been just goes to show the wise-heads at RedBull and Honda had a way to work together that McLaren and AMR are foreign to. Except that it seems AMR Honda are actually on the same page and it's the press fueling the fire.

[etusch]

I think this is a good perspective.