This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
dude, honda themselves were saying they were having problems getting the weight down, and creating enough power since before the season started. do you actually find the new reports hard to believe at this point?
The actual figures I don't take as accurate but they are definitely down on power. They literally went into this season with two years less development time while also admitting the new regs have rendered their combustion and regen techniques that gave them big results on the last PU redundant and they have to figure out new avenues to regain the power lost. They said this as the season was about to begin.
I am not surprised they are down on power. They need time, but Honda always find their way, their development speed even when behind has always been incredible. The only thing that will slow it down is this power unit manufacturer cost cap (ridiculous) brought in for 2026, so they can't spend or dyno test as much as they used to. Hopefully ADUO is enough.
It took 6 years to improve their engine to a competitive level after 2015. Not sure what is "incredible" about that.
The time to catch up will be determined by how much potential is left for the top manufacturers to exploit. If there is a siginficant amount of performance left for the others to find I don't think Honda will catch up at all during this engine regulation (which looks to be short-lived). But if they are already near the ceiling of what is possible Honda may be able to get to a decent level in the next couple of years.
they are not starting from zero the pu is not too dissimilar from what f1 had in 2025 so if they is a gap its not dramatic and pu is being run on safe mode.no one is denying Honda is behind what i have a problem is figures being thrown around by the media for clicks .the only one who knows the performance difference are astonhonda and fia.
It seems to me that Honda is still heavily blamed for the Honda-McLaren era, while the realities revealed by Honda's performance with the Toro Rosso team and McLaren's weakness even with a Mercedes engine are constantly ignored. Instead, people continue to comment based on what was initially learned and seen from the McLaren-Honda partnership. However, over time we learned that McLaren was under very poor management at the time, and even its own employees suffered from this.
The engine in the Toro Rosso was a later spec and much more competitive. McLaren improved significantly with Renault and then improved even more with Merc. Honda deserved to be blamed for their poor performance with McLaren and McLaren was also delusional about the quality of its chassis, two things can be true at once. It's not unlike the current situation at AMR in that sense.
The TR was the same spec with tweaks. I guess it all depends what you think spec means. The final year with McLaren was the new PU, new architecture, when they introduced the SPLIT TURBO. They obviously made a ton of reliability changes for 2018 and 2019 but the architecture didn't change.
McLaren did improve but finished ahead of Honda only once, 2018. They finished behind Honda from 2019 - 2023.
No matter what we say here will not change what will actually happen.
The 2018 engine was updated and improved compared to the year before, that's called a new specification. There's no comparison between the performance of the 2017 engine with the years after. You are arguing for argument's sake.
im trying to have a positive outlook, but whats the old saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". youd think id be used to it by now. i hope they can get their shiz together fast. in 5 or 6 years when they have a PU as good as the merc im sure all the mega fans will be saying "i told you so" haha
when a company has the audacity to jump into a competitive technical sport like F1 and decides to fill it with new hires, there are no excuses. to people that say "it works for them", id say, hell no it doesnt. obviously it doesnt. maybe it did when they were building v10s, but that methodology needs to go the way of the samarai. there is a reason that no other team would ever do that..before they ever thought of starting this, they shoulda brought in every single engineer with experience they couldve gotten, just to get it off the ground. if there was no one there, they shouldnt have done it. to me, right now, it looks like honda couldve cared less about anyone that wasnt honda. all this talk about working as a team is pretty rich, when they intentionally gave themselves a big handicap without explaining the real situation to their "TEAM". was it arrogance, or was it the mentality that aston will just have to deal with it until we get it right? its all just sorta mind blowing to me. but two thumbs up on everything else!!
im trying to have a positive outlook, but whats the old saying, "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". youd think id be used to it by now. i hope they can get their shiz together fast. in 5 or 6 years when they have a PU as good as the merc im sure all the mega fans will be saying "i told you so" haha
when a company has the audacity to jump into a competitive technical sport like F1 and decides to fill it with new hires, there are no excuses. to people that say "it works for them", id say, hell no it doesnt. obviously it doesnt. maybe it did when they were building v10s, but that methodology needs to go the way of the samarai. there is a reason that no other team would ever do that..before they ever thought of starting this, they shoulda brought in every single engineer with experience they couldve gotten, just to get it off the ground. if there was no one there, they shouldnt have done it. to me, right now, it looks like honda couldve cared less about anyone that wasnt honda. all this talk about working as a team is pretty rich, when they intentionally gave themselves a big handicap without explaining the real situation to their "TEAM". was it arrogance, or was it the mentality that aston will just have to deal with it until we get it right? its all just sorta mind blowing to me. but two thumbs up on everything else!!
Tired of talking or reading about it. Want to just get on with it. Unfortunately it's taken alot of the fun out of it.
If there is no one to understand then talking is not make sense as I already wrote.
If someone can't say, "So the new formula isn't so simple after all," or compare whether the engine performs better in the new chassis or the chassis performs better with the new engine...
Don't bother, it's not worth your time.
Just sit back and enjoy watching Honda bring another Golden Era of F1 to a team like it did for Williams, McLaren and Red Bull. You don't go 11/12 and 21/22 wins in a season without a jewel of an engine. Sure, it starts off as a rough diamond or a lump of coal.
I'm rooting for AMR and Newey to get it right and flourish under Honda power.
Here is how I see this whole situation. Honda is not ready. Honda not being ready is not ok.
Mercedes, Redbull, Audi, Ferrari are doing fine. Honda PU is the worst. These are objective facts.
They may dominate 5 years from now but that's a discussion for if/when that happens. Right now, Honda is not ready for the upper echelons of formula racing and should be criticized for it. Honda not being ready has an impact on a lot of talented engineers, on the company's finances (AMRs) and the drivers. That is not ok.
McLaren-honda project nearly bankrupted McLaren and they lost all sponsors. Honda can not be the reason that happens to any team. That is unacceptable.
You are not in a position to accept or unaccept anything. Just can post comments. And the problem is, you are doing only thing you can do without any grasp.
Honda are running their pu detuned and have been granted realibity update by fia so until then we don't know the real Honda pu.aston was supposed to bring their real 2026 car in Australia but for some reason held back .so we should just wait for the second half of the season were the team expect to be competitive , they is no point for people to express their anger on a blog it won't change anything at best just listen to the team wait for them to implement to plans.
Honda are running their pu detuned and have been granted realibity update by fia so until then we don't know the real Honda pu.aston was supposed to bring their real 2026 car in Australia but for some reason held back .so we should just wait for the second half of the season were the team expect to be competitive , they is no point for people to express their anger on a blog it won't change anything at best just listen to the team wait for them to implement to plans.
I'm sorry to say this, but we all have see real Honda engines really failing to complete three real F1 races. Let alone the real pace.
Honda are running their pu detuned and have been granted realibity update by fia so until then we don't know the real Honda pu.aston was supposed to bring their real 2026 car in Australia but for some reason held back .so we should just wait for the second half of the season were the team expect to be competitive , they is no point for people to express their anger on a blog it won't change anything at best just listen to the team wait for them to implement to plans.
I'm sorry to say this, but we all have see real Honda engines really failing to complete three real F1 races. Let alone the real pace.
Let keep it real .that's was everything to do with vibrations. The vibration will be completely fixed in miami without changing anything on the engine. The solution has been tested in japan and it worked.
Honda are running their pu detuned and have been granted realibity update by fia so until then we don't know the real Honda pu.aston was supposed to bring their real 2026 car in Australia but for some reason held back .so we should just wait for the second half of the season were the team expect to be competitive , they is no point for people to express their anger on a blog it won't change anything at best just listen to the team wait for them to implement to plans.
I'm sorry to say this, but we all have see real Honda engines really failing to complete three real F1 races. Let alone the real pace.
Let keep it real .that's was everything to do with vibrations. The vibration will be completely fixed in miami without changing anything on the engine. The solution has been tested in japan and it worked.
I suppose you would be happy to have a 7 kg washing machine in which you only can put 3 kg of laundry, or it will dissintegrate itself.
Let keep it real .that's was everything to do with vibrations. The vibration will be completely fixed in miami without changing anything on the engine. The solution has been tested in japan and it worked.
Little chance of that. Even if they manage to decrease vibrations to acceptable levels it's likely to add a lot of weight.
I guess you could compare 2026 to 2015. ADUO was created to prevent what happened to Honda in 2015—they won’t have to wait two years for the rules to change in order to make drastic improvements.
That being said, I don’t think they’ll need to make drastic changes. As Honda and Newey have confirmed, combustion is where the weakness lies. So I’d say that, in the worst-case scenario, when we release the new PU, we’ll jump to a 2017 level.
I don’t expect all the DNFs we saw in 2017/2018. There’s no split-turbo mechanical complexity, which caused most of those DNFs. I also don’t expect them to fully solve the combustion performance problem this year—it’ll likely be something they keep working to improve throughout this entire era of regulations.
