Concept power units from 2030

[mzso]

Are we not talking F1 here ?

Well you said, motorsport. So 1.5l to 4.5l, 4-16 cylinders then. With or without turbo.

That's better... 50cc will not work to well in F1.

Well the original point was that your claim of "sounding like motorsport" can be anything. Such as what we have now definitely "sounds like motorsport", because it is.
So V8 or not is of no relevance to this. Even only thinking of F1 history you have a straight 4 as one of the most powerful engines. An horrors like the H16 on the other end.

[mzso]

E-rev engine on what ever config and fuel.

A 1000hp generator with 4 motors 350hp for each corner and a 0.5kwh battery.

You'd still need an 1000 hp engine to run the 1000 hp generator. And then the four motors. How would that help?

[FW17]

E-rev engine on what ever config and fuel.

A 1000hp generator with 4 motors 350hp for each corner and a 0.5kwh battery.

You'd still need an 1000 hp engine to run the 1000 hp generator. And then the four motors. How would that help?

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

[Cold Fussion]

E-rev engine on what ever config and fuel.

A 1000hp generator with 4 motors 350hp for each corner and a 0.5kwh battery.

You'd still need an 1000 hp engine to run the 1000 hp generator. And then the four motors. How would that help?

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

Maybe this is more efficient, and it may even be a good architecture for a consumer road hybrid, but as an entertainment product I don't think a constant rpm engine at all times would be very good.

[FW17]

You'd still need an 1000 hp engine to run the 1000 hp generator. And then the four motors. How would that help?

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

Maybe this is more efficient, and it may even be a good architecture for a consumer road hybrid, but as an entertainment product I don't think a constant rpm engine at all times would be very good.

How does the sound be an issue?
As a person in the grandstand the engine sound will be softer when far away, getting louder as it comes closer to you and then getting softer as it goes away from you. TV cameras also have mikes in fixed place and does not move with the car.

As for onboard sound, the engine will still need to ramp up and down as they hit the brakes. and in F1 the time spent between corners is not that much, and on straights it will like watching a Indycar or Nascar oval onboard.

[Tommy Cookers]

E-rev engine on what ever config and fuel.

A 1000hp generator with 4 motors 350hp for each corner and a 0.5kwh battery.

You'd still need an 1000 hp engine to run the 1000 hp generator. And then the four motors. How would that help?

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

theres's no gearbox between the motorgenerators and their load
this is a major deficiency

eg full-power motoring from 50 mph will need 5 times the current that full-power motoring at 250 mph will need
and will only use a fifth of the available voltage
this is bad for efficiency etc etc etc
the rules cap torque to prevent this (using full electrical power at low MG speeds)

[FW17]

You'd still need an 1000 hp engine to run the 1000 hp generator. And then the four motors. How would that help?

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

theres's no gearbox between the motorgenerators and their load
this is a major deficiency

eg full-power motoring from 50 mph will need 5 times the current that full-power motoring at 250 mph will need
and will only use a fifth of the available voltage
this is bad for efficiency etc etc etc

We have been doing this for a 100 years

[Tommy Cookers]

we have exactly not 'been doing this for 100 years'
and are not doing it now

we eg vary the train electric motor properties from moment to moment to achieve the equivalent of shifting 40 gears
like a BEV car train propulsion is constant torque at low speeds and constant power (torque falling with speed) at higher
specifically the train ICE does not run at full power until after the train has moved away from rest

the suggested F1 car seems to expect constant power throughout ie very high torque (so very high current) at low speeds
this approach is less efficient electrically and packagewise
there's no free lunches

btw
the F1 ICE is run (by the fuel rate per rpm limits) as a constant torque device
that's why we have a gearbox (from which the electric system benefits greatly)
some don't get this

[DenBommer]

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

Maybe this is more efficient, and it may even be a good architecture for a consumer road hybrid, but as an entertainment product I don't think a constant rpm engine at all times would be very good.

How does the sound be an issue?
As a person in the grandstand the engine sound will be softer when far away, getting louder as it comes closer to you and then getting softer as it goes away from you. TV cameras also have mikes in fixed place and does not move with the car.

As for onboard sound, the engine will still need to ramp up and down as they hit the brakes. and in F1 the time spent between corners is not that much, and on straights it will like watching a Indycar or Nascar oval onboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53LkXDjXKI0

Like this??

[FW17]

Maybe this is more efficient, and it may even be a good architecture for a consumer road hybrid, but as an entertainment product I don't think a constant rpm engine at all times would be very good.

How does the sound be an issue?
As a person in the grandstand the engine sound will be softer when far away, getting louder as it comes closer to you and then getting softer as it goes away from you. TV cameras also have mikes in fixed place and does not move with the car.

As for onboard sound, the engine will still need to ramp up and down as they hit the brakes. and in F1 the time spent between corners is not that much, and on straights it will like watching a Indycar or Nascar oval onboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53LkXDjXKI0

Like this??

Yeah

But I am more of V6 fan

[mzso]

No gearbox
Engine running at its maximum efficiency for longer
Maybe a lighter engine as it is not directly driving the wheels

Maybe this is more efficient, and it may even be a good architecture for a consumer road hybrid, but as an entertainment product I don't think a constant rpm engine at all times would be very good.

How does the sound be an issue?
As a person in the grandstand the engine sound will be softer when far away, getting louder as it comes closer to you and then getting softer as it goes away from you. TV cameras also have mikes in fixed place and does not move with the car.

As for onboard sound, the engine will still need to ramp up and down as they hit the brakes. and in F1 the time spent between corners is not that much, and on straights it will like watching a Indycar or Nascar oval onboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53LkXDjXKI0

If you're going to have full power motor that needs to rev down and up because of little to no storage, you might as well have it drive the car and don't bother with generation.

It makes more sense to have small motor 200-300kW and minimal battery storage to provide the target 750kw in the straights. You could do that with a turbo charged two cylinder engine with not too much displacement.

[DenBommer]

What can F1 learn from the new Formula E Gen4 car?

https://racingnews365.com/first-look-at ... r-on-track

[Cold Fussion]

Hopefully nothing given it's primarily a spec series.

[Stu]

E-rev engine on what ever config and fuel.
A 1000hp generator with 4 motors 350hp for each corner and a 0.5kwh battery.

in the modern version of the free-piston ICE (no vibration, no crankshaft, no con-rods, no cams etc) .,...
the 2 pistons are each also the moving part of a linear (electrical) generator ....
which can also have ICE-controlling effects eg ... starting ...'revs' ... 'gears' ... etc
and maybe throw in an exhaust turbine etc ....

what's not to like ?

I like this a a potential outcome.
Now that ‘we’ have moved from kg/hr to MJ/hr measure for limiting power output it would be viable to deregulate the whole power unit part of the rules. No fuel stipulation, no cylinder count, no architecture mandate - just good engineering experimentation.

This would also be possible within other areas of the rules, set a weight limit, a vehicle size limit and govern only around the safety equipment & crash tests. If the budget cap is realistically enforced and set that would control the car design & performance.

Formula Libre….

[mzso]

Hopefully nothing given it's primarily a spec series.

A silly blanket statement... BTW so is F1 by now. With spec parts, and a formula so specific that many other parts are practically the same.
The B.Sport guy for example pointed at the front regen that it would be a good solution to the current fiasko of F1. And even as an FE spec part it's not too bulky.