Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[mzso]

This cannot come soon enough so they can work on turning up the wick and introducing performance. That engine is turned down so far that this whole "130R every car losing 50kph and revs dropping looks bad" chat, the Honda's sounded woefully low revving and there was some resonance that onboards sounded like the engine had a big end knock lol. It was depressing.

Do you have a video example?

[mzso]

Ok so it appears they did indeed test something and "the item" was successful in greatly reducing the vibrations but they chose not to implement it during subsequent sessions and the race on "reliability grounds". Interesting whatever this fix is that it concerned them enough to not use it for the moment.

But they now believe it's a hugely positive sign and they know what needs to be done between now and Miami. Mike Krack now believes the vibration issue will be completely solved by Miami and this conversation will be a thing of the past.

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10809478/

I'm keeping my expectations low. They also say in the article that neither the chassis nor the power unit can be significantly updated in the near future.
So all improvements are accounted for by these countermeasures. Probably with significant added mass.

[diffuser]

Ok so it appears they did indeed test something and "the item" was successful in greatly reducing the vibrations but they chose not to implement it during subsequent sessions and the race on "reliability grounds". Interesting whatever this fix is that it concerned them enough to not use it for the moment.

But they now believe it's a hugely positive sign and they know what needs to be done between now and Miami. Mike Krack now believes the vibration issue will be completely solved by Miami and this conversation will be a thing of the past.

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/aston ... /10809478/

This cannot come soon enough so they can work on turning up the wick and introducing performance. That engine is turned down so far that this whole "130R every car losing 50kph and revs dropping looks bad" chat, the Honda's sounded woefully low revving and there was some resonance that onboards sounded like the engine had a big end knock lol. It was depressing.

Good! finally some encouraging signs, it's interesting that they decided not to use them for Q and R due to reliability concerns, that makes me think that whatever the changes are they are not in the fixing points it's got to be something internal, in my mind at least.

thanks for keeping this thread with posts like this guys!

Maybe a temporary fix run during practice, they tested to check if it was working, with 1 month break we can expect cars some performance and potential of the chassis..

That's basically what Krack said, he had doubts about the reliability of the part. The current version wasn't designed to be raced. That they'll have a racable version for Miami. That's my interpretation at least.

[Brahmal]

Honda


RBPT


Ferrari

The MGUK is offset to the side with all power units, but Honda looks to be the furthest outboard. I wonder if length of the linkage contributes to vibrations.

[GhostF1]

https://www.automotivepowertraintechnol ... x863-1.jpg
Honda

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HELnTNWaIAI ... name=small
RBPT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HElwYzqXsAA ... name=large
Ferrari

The MGUK is offset to the side with all power units, but Honda looks to be the furthest outboard. I wonder if length of the linkage contributes to vibrations.

This might be a trick of the angles but... is Ferrari's MGU-K in the vee of the ICE???

[Farnborough]

https://www.automotivepowertraintechnol ... x863-1.jpg
Honda

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HELnTNWaIAI ... name=small
RBPT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HElwYzqXsAA ... name=large
Ferrari

The MGUK is offset to the side with all power units, but Honda looks to be the furthest outboard. I wonder if length of the linkage contributes to vibrations.

This might be a trick of the angles but... is Ferrari's MGU-K in the vee of the ICE???

It's the perspective, I believe, and typical of longer camera lens "stacking" compressing effect in this scenario.

The MGU is much longer than it appears here (in flattened perspective) the length of It's casing at oblique angle to the camera image plane.

It does show though, that it's sited almost halfway up the LHS cylinder bank (you can see the camshaft housing for that bank just above it) showing that MGU is not in the central V of engine. But, it is lifted from the base level of crankshaft/crankcase and looks to project forwards ABOVE the battery store area typical for the designs we've seen previously. That's unlike the Honda installation that appears to be at lowest point and BESIDE the battery store.

[etusch]

https://www.automotivepowertraintechnol ... x863-1.jpg
Honda

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HELnTNWaIAI ... name=small
RBPT

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HElwYzqXsAA ... name=large
Ferrari

The MGUK is offset to the side with all power units, but Honda looks to be the furthest outboard. I wonder if length of the linkage contributes to vibrations.

This might be a trick of the angles but... is Ferrari's MGU-K in the vee of the ICE???

It's the perspective, I believe, and typical of longer camera lens "stacking" compressing effect in this scenario.

The MGU is much longer than it appears here (in flattened perspective) the length of It's casing at oblique angle to the camera image plane.

It does show though, that it's sited almost halfway up the LHS cylinder bank (you can see the camshaft housing for that bank just above it) showing that MGU is not in the central V of engine. But, it is lifted from the base level of crankshaft/crankcase and looks to project forwards ABOVE the battery store area typical for the designs we've seen previously. That's unlike the Honda installation that appears to be at lowest point and BESIDE the battery store.

If I were them, I would place the MGU-K right in front of the crankshaft, precisely in the middle of the engine. The battery packs would be on either side, and if necessary, some on top of the MGU-K, instead of on the side like Honda's; they've already placed another pack on top.

[Farnborough]

They all seem to choose optimum position based on need to gear the MGU above crank speed (thought it's 15,000 ~60,000 ? ) in rpm.

Concentric with crank centre would be a different gear train path, likely longer and more weight too, all of which they acknowledge are better contained with what they've got now.

[xtreme26]

So has there been any notable updates from Honda? I haven’t found any news in regards to if they made inroads but wondering if anyone’s heard anything *cough* Wazari *cough*

[Jaisonas]

I don't think they can do anything significant until ADUO, besides optimisation...

[mzso]

I don't think they can do anything significant until ADUO, besides optimisation...

Under the reliability banner they can do almost anything, as long as it improves reliability. For which they have a lot of basis this year

[diffuser]

I don't think they can do anything significant until ADUO, besides optimisation...

Under the reliability banner they can do almost anything, as long as it improves reliability. For which they have a lot of basis this year

Canada will be painful if it doesn't rain everyday.

[GhostF1]

Alright I gotta say. The engine does sound terrible. Listen to the below onboard from Miami.

https://x.com/_DMS16/status/2050901452680294790

Not the exhaust note, that is most prominent and sounds fine, but there is some weird, low frequency, rough mechanical "thrum" always present. It does sound rough as guts and imagining that frequency as a vibration through the wheel for the first few races.. man.

I don't even know what it could be. ICE to MGU-K coupling? Gearbox/diff? I can't believe it's the ICE itself, that has been fine for years and is in general similar to this year. The K itself would be very smooth (hallmark of most electric motors). How it's geared to the crank maybe??

[PlatinumZealot]

Wazari-san!, please come to the front of the class, Sir! And explain to us how Honda solved the vibration issue.

[Rasoose]

I don't even know what it could be. ICE to MGU-K coupling? Gearbox/diff? I can't believe it's the ICE itself, that has been fine for years and is in general similar to this year. The K itself would be very smooth (hallmark of most electric motors). How it's geared to the crank maybe??

A lot of the onboard noise from some of the cars *is* from the gearbox (normally a high-pitched whine), such as current Red Bull and most of the Red Bull Honda years, as well as McLaren the last few years. Mic placement plays a big part though which isn't always consistent.
In the past they've even used a different style of onboard mic seemingly at random, on different cars throughout the year (located nearer to the exhaust if memory serves).