2026 Hybrid Powerunits

[diffuser]

The new gen 4 will still be at F2 level but it is getty more interesting. They're getting fast charging that can charge 20% of the battery in 30 seconds. You can force 2 pit stops and top up the battery 40%. Wasn't too long ago that F1 was refueling on the fly. Plus 700 kw recharging under braking.

Gen 4 battery size is 55kWh.

20% of that is 11kWh.

To recharge that in 30s is 1,320kW, more than double the charge rate for Gen 3.

Let's say that the battery can be recharged 20% twice in a race, for a total of 140% battery capacity for the race.

That is 77kWh.

Assuming an average power output half of the nominal output of 450kW. So 225kW.

The time that they can race is 77kWh/225kW = 0.3422 hours. Or 20.5 minutes!

The amount they can recover from braking depends on the track.

The tracks they have run on have lots of braking zones. But these they will run on proper tracks with less braking recovery possible - and higher power usage.

If you assume double the time thanks to energy recovery, that's still less than half a GP distance.

Let's take Australia for example.

It was really bad for the 2026 PU regulations. It would also be for FE.

F1 braking is about 8s of 80s lap. Let's say 12s for heavier FE car.
F2 lap time is about 90s.

Assume that for FE as well, plus the 225kW average output.
225kW * 90s = 20.25MJ.

Braking recovery: 12s * 700kW = 8.4MJ

Battery consumption per lap: 20.25MJ - 8.4MJ = 11.85MJ

Total Battery allowance = 77kWh = 277.2MJ

Number of laps = 277.2MJ/11.85MJ = 23.4 laps.

F2 ran 23 laps, just under 40 minutes, in race 1 and 33 laps, just under 1 hour, in race 2.

F1 race is 58 laps.

In refuelling era, the tank could be filled in around 10-12s, good enough for more than half the race.

Not sure what you're trying to say.

[bananapeel23]

Gen 4 battery size is 55kWh.

20% of that is 11kWh.

To recharge that in 30s is 1,320kW, more than double the charge rate for Gen 3.

Let's say that the battery can be recharged 20% twice in a race, for a total of 140% battery capacity for the race.

That is 77kWh.

Assuming an average power output half of the nominal output of 450kW. So 225kW.

The time that they can race is 77kWh/225kW = 0.3422 hours. Or 20.5 minutes!

The amount they can recover from braking depends on the track.

The tracks they have run on have lots of braking zones. But these they will run on proper tracks with less braking recovery possible - and higher power usage.

If you assume double the time thanks to energy recovery, that's still less than half a GP distance.

Let's take Australia for example.

It was really bad for the 2026 PU regulations. It would also be for FE.

F1 braking is about 8s of 80s lap. Let's say 12s for heavier FE car.
F2 lap time is about 90s.

Assume that for FE as well, plus the 225kW average output.
225kW * 90s = 20.25MJ.

Braking recovery: 12s * 700kW = 8.4MJ

Battery consumption per lap: 20.25MJ - 8.4MJ = 11.85MJ

Total Battery allowance = 77kWh = 277.2MJ

Number of laps = 277.2MJ/11.85MJ = 23.4 laps.

No clue what you are trying to say, but the rate of progress from Formula E is insane.

At this rate the Gen 5 car will likely be recharging at 2 MW and harvesting under braking at ~1 MW, likely with a ~80-100 kWh battery.

I’d be shocked if Gen 5 doesn’t also bring solid state batteries, which could achieve all of these improvements while maintaining or driving down weight. Unless F1 goes full late 2010s aero insanity again (this time with SM), Formula E could pose a genuine threat to F1 lap times, at least in quali.

Realistically F1 will need ever more active aero to keep up after gen 5, especially if people want to dehybridize the PU and lose the additional torque. Fan cars would be amazing though.

[eyelid]

Nice try. You wan't to believe but solid state batteries are worse tech than NMC or LFP batteries really, that's why they're not in production or nobody cares really.

[eyelid]

[

The United Kingdom has reinstated its original target, meaning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned from 2030, with the sale of new hybrid vehicles banned from 2035

That's great news, The Great Britain will collapse and gets back to stone age. Plentiful of entertainment coming up as shitty EV's wont work for them and they can't get even food from markets and people starving to deatch as shitty EV's range limitations prevent them to deliver goodies. And people have no money to buy EV so they go by walk or cycle or bus. Good! Now we know when catastrophe will build on "united kingdom" and when the death and collapse of one european contry will come.

Do you have any other good news?

[wuzak]

No clue what you are trying to say, but the rate of progress from Formula E is insane.

Trying to do a reality check.

FE Gen 4 may be able to do 40% of an F1 race distance at, possibky, F2 speed.

At this rate the Gen 5 car will likely be recharging at 2 MW and harvesting under braking at ~1 MW, likely with a ~80-100 kWh battery.

Formula E went from 47kWh in Gen 3 to 55kWh and gained 172kg.

Sure, some of that is in the new chassis and additional safety, but adding capacity will add weght.

But not just in the batteries - they will require additional cooling and chassis weight will go up to keep them safe.

The Gen 4 car looks to have a 600kW pit charging capability. Which would give 5kWh in 30s.

I’d be shocked if Gen 5 doesn’t also bring solid state batteries, which could achieve all of these improvements while maintaining or driving down weight.

I don't know if solid state batteries will be a big enough improvement, if at all.

Unless F1 goes full late 2010s aero insanity again (this time with SM), Formula E could pose a genuine threat to F1 lap times, at least in quali.

Realistically F1 will need ever more active aero to keep up after gen 5, especially if people want to dehybridize the PU and lose the additional torque. Fan cars would be amazing though.

F1's active aero is due to the increased electrification and the neutering of the ICE.

The current chassis with the 2025 PU would likely not need active aero to be faster than this year's cars.

F1 has been slowed down for much of its existence. Only in 1966 and 2017 have they deliberately made the rules to go faster.

[diffuser]

[

The United Kingdom has reinstated its original target, meaning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be banned from 2030, with the sale of new hybrid vehicles banned from 2035

That's great news, The Great Britain will collapse and gets back to stone age. Plentiful of entertainment coming up as shitty EV's wont work for them and they can't get even food from markets and people starving to deatch as shitty EV's range limitations prevent them to deliver goodies. And people have no money to buy EV so they go by walk or cycle or bus. Good! Now we know when catastrophe will build on "united kingdom" and when the death and collapse of one european contry will come.

Do you have any other good news?

You sound like you're from the US and are completely ignorant of the challenges other countries face with petroleum-based fuels and their impact on global warming. Moving toward a reduced reliance on internal combustion engines (ICE) is, quite literally, a way for them to break free from dependence on oil-rich countries. It also cuts the cost of transportation in those countries. The price of Gas in the UK is probably higher than $9 USD a gallon and better than $10 for a gallon of Diesel.

[venkyhere]

Already they have blundered by giving up the MGU-H that was painstakingly researched and crafted by different teams. Just for the sake of Audi. And now, like a high school lunchbreak scuffle, other manufacturers denying front wheel regen, in retaliation. Giving up the turbo as well, because some rose-tinted-spectacle-wearing 'those were the days of NA V8 burble' old boys think it's cool ; will mean F1 is simply going backwards.
"oops! we went too far ahead with too much electrification, now lets go back to NA V8s" -- that's like trying to compensate a breakfast of burger-chips, by eating grass for dinner. Overcorrection.

[diffuser]

Already they have blundered by giving up the MGU-H that was painstakingly researched and crafted by different teams. Just for the sake of Audi. And now, like a high school lunchbreak scuffle, other manufacturers denying front wheel regen, in retaliation. Giving up the turbo as well, because some rose-tinted-spectacle-wearing 'those were the days of NA V8 burble' old boys think it's cool ; will mean F1 is simply going backwards.
"oops! we went too far ahead with too much electrification, now lets go back to NA V8s" -- that's like trying to compensate a breakfast of burger-chips, by eating grass for dinner. Overcorrection.

Remember this is just "talk" at this point. Before they make a decision, their needs to be a plan to go into a freeze in the current regs. They generally allow for 3 years in the freeze to develop the new platform. The earliest they could go into a freeze is for 2028, as 2027 is already too late. Even 2028 will depend on how 2027 goes. So if 2028 is the last year they allow development for current PU regs. That leaves you with 2028, 2029 and 2030 for development with the new regs, NAv8s, being ready for 2031. Also nobody is talking NAv8s without a MGU-K. Pretty much they're talking the exact same regs only replacing Turbo charged V6s with NAv8s with more fuel flow. Although there is also talk of increasing fuel flow for Tv6s for 2028.

[diffuser]

At this rate the Gen 5 car will likely be recharging at 2 MW and harvesting under braking at ~1 MW, likely with a ~80-100 kWh battery.

Formula E went from 47kWh in Gen 3 to 55kWh and gained 172kg.

Sure, some of that is in the new chassis and additional safety, but adding capacity will add weght.

But not just in the batteries - they will require additional cooling and chassis weight will go up to keep them safe.

The Gen 4 car looks to have a 600kW pit charging capability. Which would give 5kWh in 30s.

I’d be shocked if Gen 5 doesn’t also bring solid state batteries, which could achieve all of these improvements while maintaining or driving down weight.

I don't know if solid state batteries will be a big enough improvement, if at all.

Yeah, you're right that the PIT Boost is 600KW, so 10% charge in 30 seconds. Max charge rate might go to 700 or 800 with SSB but that isn't a big jump and it probably wouldn't be just do to SSMs but more to do with improvements all around that will have occurred in 4 years from now when gen 5 comes out. You'll save a little weight with SSB but only cause they're more stable, not cause the batteries are a lot lighter.

Couldn't they just use 2 x 30KW battery modules that you could then charge the 2 batteries each with 2 x 600KW chargers for a total of 1200kw ?

[chipengineer]

At this rate the Gen 5 car will likely be recharging at 2 MW and harvesting under braking at ~1 MW, likely with a ~80-100 kWh battery.

Formula E went from 47kWh in Gen 3 to 55kWh and gained 172kg.

Sure, some of that is in the new chassis and additional safety, but adding capacity will add weght.

But not just in the batteries - they will require additional cooling and chassis weight will go up to keep them safe.

The Gen 4 car looks to have a 600kW pit charging capability. Which would give 5kWh in 30s.

I’d be shocked if Gen 5 doesn’t also bring solid state batteries, which could achieve all of these improvements while maintaining or driving down weight.

I don't know if solid state batteries will be a big enough improvement, if at all.

Yeah, you're right that the PIT Boost is 600KW, so 10% charge in 30 seconds. Max charge rate might go to 700 or 800 with SSB but that isn't a big jump and it probably wouldn't be just do to SSMs but more to do with improvements all around that will have occurred in 4 years from now when gen 5 comes out. You'll save a little weight with SSB but only cause they're more stable, not cause the batteries are a lot lighter.

Couldn't they just use 2 x 30KW battery modules that you could then charge the 2 batteries each with 2 x 600KW chargers for a total of 1200kw ?

Or do NASCAR like stage racing, have two 5 minute pit stops to recharge the batteries...
not that I would like that.

[Zynerji]

Formula E went from 47kWh in Gen 3 to 55kWh and gained 172kg.

Sure, some of that is in the new chassis and additional safety, but adding capacity will add weght.

But not just in the batteries - they will require additional cooling and chassis weight will go up to keep them safe.

The Gen 4 car looks to have a 600kW pit charging capability. Which would give 5kWh in 30s.




I don't know if solid state batteries will be a big enough improvement, if at all.

Yeah, you're right that the PIT Boost is 600KW, so 10% charge in 30 seconds. Max charge rate might go to 700 or 800 with SSB but that isn't a big jump and it probably wouldn't be just do to SSMs but more to do with improvements all around that will have occurred in 4 years from now when gen 5 comes out. You'll save a little weight with SSB but only cause they're more stable, not cause the batteries are a lot lighter.

Couldn't they just use 2 x 30KW battery modules that you could then charge the 2 batteries each with 2 x 600KW chargers for a total of 1200kw ?

Or do NASCAR like stage racing, have two 5 minute pit stops to recharge the batteries...
not that I would like that.

I think just pump-swapping the charged gel inside the batteries would be way better.

[Chuckjr]

Just my opinion, but until the driver is having to control wheel spin in 7th gear on a straight, the PU is not to where F1 needs to be to draw everything out of the driver. If that becomes the F1 telos, then the PU is getting to the point of F1 racing, imo.

[mzso]

If full electric was the pinnacle then track days would be full of BEVs instead of ICE cars, many of which might be much slower in a straight line but will absolutely destroy even the fastest BEV on earth over a 60 lap stint.

A completely nonsensical statement. Track days have nothing to do with technology whatsoever.
When you look at performance charecteristics and efficiency, ICE drive is just clearly inferior. And have hard limits much below electric motors. It's not really a subjective thing. So if you use something that inherently is worse, even at theoretical limits, it can't be any sort of "pinnacle" of technology.

Its also about the spectacle - F1 is about the sounds and small, fast cars that can do things that seem impossible. As FE's viewership shows, full electric motorsports has a long, long, long way to go to capture public imagination.

Noise proved to be of little to no relevance in F1's popularity. A tiny percentage of viewer constantly complain since 2014, yet popularity. Nothing else sou said is incompatible with electric drive

FE popularity is what it is because it's not called F1, it's like a decade old without 75 years of marketing behind it, wasn't trying to reach F1 levels of performance, and didn't race on grand prix circuits.

I realize this is like talking to a brick wall but it whatever... Electric is far, far inferior when it comes to energy density which makes it too heavy for track use over any sort of reasonable distance. I'm sure you can up with some sort of "Chinese super duper EV" science fiction to make it seem like you can swap batteries or use fusion generators or some such thing but the reality is nobody is rushing to track EVs because they make terrible track cars. Going fast in a straight line might work over a couple of laps but then you need to recharge it and the truck like weights mean the power to weight is far less impressive.

As for noise - thats subjective but the 26 viewership numbers and clear fan backlash have been enough for F1 to publicly come out and announce a pivot back to ICE skewed engines as soon as possible. Both the people who watch FE aren't enough to move the needle. You need car enthusiasts and the utter failure of EV sports cars shows how important noise is to them.

You mean the storage. And yes weight can be solved to be brought down to a good power to weight ratio.
And yes, battery swapping is a potential direction. Even if you dismissed it without any argument or basis whatsoever.

26 noise isn't any worse than 2014-2025. It's slightly more even. And that fan backlash is in your head. For 12 years we had this sound. F1 only became more popular and successful...

[diffuser]

Just my opinion, but until the driver is having to control wheel spin in 7th gear on a straight, the PU is not to where F1 needs to be to draw everything out of the driver. If that becomes the F1 telos, then the PU is getting to the point of F1 racing, imo.

That's probably easier to do this year than it was last year. This year the rear wing, is lower DF and it doesn't always close when you hit the throttle, so if you're at a low enough speed I'm sure you could spin the wheels in 7th gear. Plus the MGU-K delivers far more power this year and it's full balls out torque all the time. Well as long as you have juice.

[Badger]

A completely nonsensical statement. Track days have nothing to do with technology whatsoever.
When you look at performance charecteristics and efficiency, ICE drive is just clearly inferior. And have hard limits much below electric motors. It's not really a subjective thing. So if you use something that inherently is worse, even at theoretical limits, it can't be any sort of "pinnacle" of technology.




Noise proved to be of little to no relevance in F1's popularity. A tiny percentage of viewer constantly complain since 2014, yet popularity. Nothing else sou said is incompatible with electric drive

FE popularity is what it is because it's not called F1, it's like a decade old without 75 years of marketing behind it, wasn't trying to reach F1 levels of performance, and didn't race on grand prix circuits.

I realize this is like talking to a brick wall but it whatever... Electric is far, far inferior when it comes to energy density which makes it too heavy for track use over any sort of reasonable distance. I'm sure you can up with some sort of "Chinese super duper EV" science fiction to make it seem like you can swap batteries or use fusion generators or some such thing but the reality is nobody is rushing to track EVs because they make terrible track cars. Going fast in a straight line might work over a couple of laps but then you need to recharge it and the truck like weights mean the power to weight is far less impressive.

As for noise - thats subjective but the 26 viewership numbers and clear fan backlash have been enough for F1 to publicly come out and announce a pivot back to ICE skewed engines as soon as possible. Both the people who watch FE aren't enough to move the needle. You need car enthusiasts and the utter failure of EV sports cars shows how important noise is to them.

You mean the storage. And yes weight can be solved to be brought down to a good power to weight ratio.
And yes, battery swapping is a potential direction. Even if you dismissed it without any argument or basis whatsoever.

26 noise isn't any worse than 2014-2025. It's slightly more even. And that fan backlash is in your head. For 12 years we had this sound. F1 only became more popular and successful...

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Luckily F1 seems to have understood this now and they are moving towards a sensible “entertainment first” formula instead of trying to placate the zealots.