Red Bull RB22

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB22

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
07 May 2026, 02:26
AR3-GP wrote:
02 May 2026, 16:34
You could also think of the leading edge of the flap like points on a clock. It's position relative to the rotation axis defines whether it also moves up or down when it starts to rotate. In Red Bull's case there would be no downward translation of the flap to cause a collision with the mainplane. In Ferrari's case it doesn't matter because they rotate it the opposite way, but you can see if Ferrari rotate there's the same direction as Red Bull, then Ferrari's flap would just smash into the mainplane. The circle plot shows this. The flap leading edge on the Ferrari must move downward before it moves upwards in order to rotate counterclockwise like Red Bull.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmjRFPJL/image.png
Your drawing is a bit exaggerated. Both have pivots a few inches rear of the leading edge. The Redbull flap is a bigger barn-door style flap though.
The pivot point on the Ferrari wing is inside the 3rd wing element.

Image
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Silent Storm
Silent Storm
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42

Re: Red Bull RB22

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https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dominik- ... paign=copy

CFD sim of RB wing by Dominik Balasko. Tap the link to watch his simulation...

Red Bull's Macarena Wing — Compromise or Genuine Gain? 🏎️ Red Bull debuted their Macarena-style flipping rear wing in Miami — and the architecture tells a different story to Ferrari's. What they share: Both deploy trailing-edge-first. The goal: exploit the deployed position aerodynamically, not just reduce drag. Where Ferrari extracts more: Ferrari's endplate actuation places the flap rearward into the diffuser upwash at full deployment. The flap curves that upwash into a forward-inclined lift vector — an active aero gain, not just camber-change drag relief. Red Bull's centred actuation keeps the flap forward of that corridor. The gain is drag reduction, not lift generation. Where Red Bull has the advantage: Ferrari acts from one endplate only. That's a massive torsional load across the full flap span — asymmetric, structurally demanding, and a real weight penalty. Red Bull's central mount is symmetric, lighter, and allows significantly faster opening and closing. The aero behavior on closing reflects that too. Ferrari's flap only re-enters the slot gap suction region late in the closing stroke — delayed reattachment, wide hysteresis loop, slow downforce recovery. Red Bull's closing sequence tells a different story: • Slot gap suction re-established from the start of the stroke • Partial attachment present early → lift builds linearly through the return • Smooth, predictable downforce recovery with no step-change in loading In practice: more consistent aero loading on corner entry, directly influencing trail-braking margin and rear stability under rotation. My take? Red Bull probably won't match Ferrari's peak straight-line delta. But a lighter, faster actuation system combined with linear lift build-up through the closing stroke means more consistent performance lap-to-lap — and in a race environment, that's often the more valuable commodity. Not a compromise. A deliberate trade-off — peak gain for aerodynamic consistency. Full simulation breakdown below — DRS hysteresis study in STAR-CCM+, flow visualization included. Credit for the geometry goes to Emil Qvist
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venkyhere
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Joined: 10 Feb 2024, 06:17

Re: Red Bull RB22

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Silent Storm wrote:
07 May 2026, 08:37
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dominik- ... paign=copy

CFD sim of RB wing by Dominik Balasko. Tap the link to watch his simulation...

Red Bull's Macarena Wing — Compromise or Genuine Gain? 🏎️ Red Bull debuted their Macarena-style flipping rear wing in Miami — and the architecture tells a different story to Ferrari's. What they share: Both deploy trailing-edge-first. The goal: exploit the deployed position aerodynamically, not just reduce drag. Where Ferrari extracts more: Ferrari's endplate actuation places the flap rearward into the diffuser upwash at full deployment. The flap curves that upwash into a forward-inclined lift vector — an active aero gain, not just camber-change drag relief. Red Bull's centred actuation keeps the flap forward of that corridor. The gain is drag reduction, not lift generation. Where Red Bull has the advantage: Ferrari acts from one endplate only. That's a massive torsional load across the full flap span — asymmetric, structurally demanding, and a real weight penalty. Red Bull's central mount is symmetric, lighter, and allows significantly faster opening and closing. The aero behavior on closing reflects that too. Ferrari's flap only re-enters the slot gap suction region late in the closing stroke — delayed reattachment, wide hysteresis loop, slow downforce recovery. Red Bull's closing sequence tells a different story: • Slot gap suction re-established from the start of the stroke • Partial attachment present early → lift builds linearly through the return • Smooth, predictable downforce recovery with no step-change in loading In practice: more consistent aero loading on corner entry, directly influencing trail-braking margin and rear stability under rotation. My take? Red Bull probably won't match Ferrari's peak straight-line delta. But a lighter, faster actuation system combined with linear lift build-up through the closing stroke means more consistent performance lap-to-lap — and in a race environment, that's often the more valuable commodity. Not a compromise. A deliberate trade-off — peak gain for aerodynamic consistency. Full simulation breakdown below — DRS hysteresis study in STAR-CCM+, flow visualization included. Credit for the geometry goes to Emil Qvist
bold text : Would it be possible to explain with a simple diagram (hand-drawn would suffice) ? My understanding was that the purpose of the downwash generated from the upside-down flap is to bend-down the upwards rising diffuser exit a little bit, so that the overall floor downforce vector's 'angle' is less inclined towards rear, thus reducing drag. Kindly help me understand the creation of a separate lift-vector (with the airflow in the reverse direction for the flap's aerofoil shape) that you mentioned.

Silent Storm
Silent Storm
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42

Re: Red Bull RB22

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Someone uploaded a comparison video on X
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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Red Bull RB22

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Silent Storm wrote:
07 May 2026, 21:33
Someone uploaded a comparison video on X
Think I need to see a wider view from the CFD traces.
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carisi2k
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Joined: 15 Oct 2014, 23:26

Re: Red Bull RB22

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Does anybody have any info about the steering upgrade to fix the issues Red Bull were having with the RB22 in the first 3 races? Is it possible that only Max had this upgrade and not Isack.

Silent Storm
Silent Storm
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Joined: 02 Feb 2015, 18:42

Re: Red Bull RB22

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carisi2k wrote:
08 May 2026, 03:45
Does anybody have any info about the steering upgrade to fix the issues Red Bull were having with the RB22 in the first 3 races? Is it possible that only Max had this upgrade and not Isack.
Not an upgrade but a fix, more like a driver preference fix.
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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Red Bull RB22

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organic wrote:
04 May 2026, 19:46
organic wrote:
04 May 2026, 17:49
michl420 wrote:
04 May 2026, 12:30
Mayb in the new rules this min radius rules are only for convex and not for concav? Kind of a loophole?
I believe that above the floor surface especially in rear corner, there is a volume where there is a relaxation or essentially no radius restriction to allow the presence of slots and small flicks and complexity in the rear corner of the floor for teams to regain downforce. I believe where the sidepod outer face slopes down it overlaps with this volume and they are therefore able to use the relaxed radii rules here to blend the outer face of the water slide into the sharp fence
We have confirmation of this novel approach to waterslides
https://i.ibb.co/cXgbbNvH/20260504-184044.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/wFMRpfpH/20260504-184049.jpg
Very extreme. It ties in with the gaping hole in the diffuser side wall. It always amazes me how RedBull really focuses on linking aerodynamic structures in the most extreme ways.
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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Red Bull RB22

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AR3-GP wrote:
07 May 2026, 03:56
PlatinumZealot wrote:
07 May 2026, 02:26
AR3-GP wrote:
02 May 2026, 16:34
You could also think of the leading edge of the flap like points on a clock. It's position relative to the rotation axis defines whether it also moves up or down when it starts to rotate. In Red Bull's case there would be no downward translation of the flap to cause a collision with the mainplane. In Ferrari's case it doesn't matter because they rotate it the opposite way, but you can see if Ferrari rotate there's the same direction as Red Bull, then Ferrari's flap would just smash into the mainplane. The circle plot shows this. The flap leading edge on the Ferrari must move downward before it moves upwards in order to rotate counterclockwise like Red Bull.

https://i.postimg.cc/vmjRFPJL/image.png
Your drawing is a bit exaggerated. Both have pivots a few inches rear of the leading edge. The Redbull flap is a bigger barn-door style flap though.
The pivot point on the Ferrari wing is inside the 3rd wing element.

https://i.postimg.cc/SKGZPMws/image.png
That is clear from the start. It is also in a similar position to the redBull's... a few inches from the leading edge as I said. The context is the rotating flaps so the leading edge of those.
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AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Red Bull RB22

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
08 May 2026, 14:34
AR3-GP wrote:
07 May 2026, 03:56
PlatinumZealot wrote:
07 May 2026, 02:26


Your drawing is a bit exaggerated. Both have pivots a few inches rear of the leading edge. The Redbull flap is a bigger barn-door style flap though.
The pivot point on the Ferrari wing is inside the 3rd wing element.

https://i.postimg.cc/SKGZPMws/image.png
That is clear from the start. It is also in a similar position to the redBull's... a few inches from the leading edge as I said. The context is the rotating flaps so the leading edge of those.
The rotation point of the Ferrari wing is in the 3rd element. The rotation point of the Red Bull wing is above the 2nd element. Is that more clear?
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