2026 Hybrid Powerunits

[Badger]

You mean the storage. And yes weight can be solved to be brought down to a good power to weight ratio.
And yes, battery swapping is a potential direction. Even if you dismissed it without any argument or basis whatsoever.

26 noise isn't any worse than 2014-2025. It's slightly more even. And that fan backlash is in your head. For 12 years we had this sound. F1 only became more popular and successful...

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Luckily F1 seems to have understood this now and they are moving towards a sensible “entertainment first” formula instead of trying to placate the zealots.

Ok cause plying to people who equate more noise with more power is the way to go. That's entertainment. Dumbing down the sport for the masses.

Entertainment is being able to push a car in the corners, it's being able to brake at 6G from 300 kph. What we have now is a watered down product. As for the noise I don't care too much if it's a V6 or a V8, just as long as it makes some kind of noise. Having no noise (like FE) is kind of like watching a movie on mute.

[Badger]

F1 agrees plan to ditch '50/50' engine power split for 2027
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-a ... 27-engine/

In a statement issued by the FIA after the meeting, it said that the aim was to increase the power of the internal combustion element by 50kW through a fuel-flow increase, with the electrical element being pulled back from 350kW to 300kW.

Hallelujah!

I said it the moment I laid eyes on these regulations 4 years ago, that power split makes zero sense. Special shoutout to Verstappen for ramping up the pressure.

[Vappy]

F1 agrees plan to ditch '50/50' engine power split for 2027
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-a ... 27-engine/

In a statement issued by the FIA after the meeting, it said that the aim was to increase the power of the internal combustion element by 50kW through a fuel-flow increase, with the electrical element being pulled back from 350kW to 300kW.

Hallelujah!

I said it the moment I laid eyes on these regulations 4 years ago, that power split makes zero sense. Special shoutout to Verstappen for ramping up the pressure.

Anyone willing to run some numbers with the above changes compared to the current? i.e. how much of a difference in super clipping, etc. 50KW is a rather small amount?

[Badger]

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Is this actually confirmed or just speculation? As far as I know we don't know the pack weight for the gen4 cars yet. Even if it is a bit heavier, the higher power density makes for a far more interesting car, and IMO it's the direction road cars should have taken vs having longer range and slow charging.

New battery weight is 340 kg with a 55 kW capacity (51 kW usable in race).

[Badger]

F1 agrees plan to ditch '50/50' engine power split for 2027
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/f1-a ... 27-engine/

In a statement issued by the FIA after the meeting, it said that the aim was to increase the power of the internal combustion element by 50kW through a fuel-flow increase, with the electrical element being pulled back from 350kW to 300kW.

Hallelujah!

I said it the moment I laid eyes on these regulations 4 years ago, that power split makes zero sense. Special shoutout to Verstappen for ramping up the pressure.

Anyone willing to run some numbers with the above changes compared to the current? i.e. how much of a difference in super clipping, etc. 50KW is a rather small amount?

Hard to say exactly because it will depend on how much less energy they need to harvest per lap. We started 2026 doing 8-9 MJ per lap, now we're down to 7-8 MJ because they lowered it to reduce harvesting. If you add 12,5% more ICE power and reduce the MGU-K by 15% (350 --> 300 kW) you will cut the need for harvesting even more. We may go from a 550 HP engine that needs to harvest 7,5 MJ per lap to a 620 HP engine that needs to harvest 5,5 MJ per lap, that's a massive difference in terms of how much harvesting will be required and how noticeable it will be when harvesting.

[Cold Fussion]

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Is this actually confirmed or just speculation? As far as I know we don't know the pack weight for the gen4 cars yet. Even if it is a bit heavier, the higher power density makes for a far more interesting car, and IMO it's the direction road cars should have taken vs having longer range and slow charging.

New battery weight is 340 kg with a 55 kW capacity (51 kW usable in race).

That's lighter than I expected considering the charge and discharge rates they quote.

[diffuser]

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Is this actually confirmed or just speculation? As far as I know we don't know the pack weight for the gen4 cars yet. Even if it is a bit heavier, the higher power density makes for a far more interesting car, and IMO it's the direction road cars should have taken vs having longer range and slow charging.

it's on the formula1.com https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Yt9rb8zcJB

“The measures agreed in principle today for 2027 would see a nominal increase in Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) power by ~50kW alongside a fuel-flow increase and a nominal reduction of the Energy Recovery System (ERS) deployment power by ~50kW.”


they don't say anything about the battery though ... They just say "Further detailed discussion in technical groups, comprising teams and power unit manufacturers, will take place before the final package is decided."

My Money is that they don't change homogenization on the battery or the MGU-K. They just limit the amount they can deploy on the MGU-K. Be nice if they let them recharge at 350KW though, don't think that will happen.

[Badger]

Is this actually confirmed or just speculation? As far as I know we don't know the pack weight for the gen4 cars yet. Even if it is a bit heavier, the higher power density makes for a far more interesting car, and IMO it's the direction road cars should have taken vs having longer range and slow charging.

New battery weight is 340 kg with a 55 kW capacity (51 kW usable in race).

That's lighter than I expected considering the charge and discharge rates they quote.

I don't think a one tonne open wheel race car is particularly light, but each to their own I guess.

[Cold Fussion]

Obviously I was talking about the pack.

[ispano6]

I'm certain they realized ditching the MGU-H was a mistake but won't openly admit it.

And the lower compression ratio being less energy efficient. Maybe they ought to just let manufacturers use the technology they have at their disposal?

[wuzak]

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Is this actually confirmed or just speculation? As far as I know we don't know the pack weight for the gen4 cars yet. Even if it is a bit heavier, the higher power density makes for a far more interesting car, and IMO it's the direction road cars should have taken vs having longer range and slow charging.

it's on the formula1.com https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Yt9rb8zcJB

“The measures agreed in principle today for 2027 would see a nominal increase in Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) power by ~50kW alongside a fuel-flow increase and a nominal reduction of the Energy Recovery System (ERS) deployment power by ~50kW.”


they don't say anything about the battery though ... They just say "Further detailed discussion in technical groups, comprising teams and power unit manufacturers, will take place before the final package is decided."

My Money is that they don't change homogenization on the battery or the MGU-K. They just limit the amount they can deploy on the MGU-K. Be nice if they let them recharge at 350KW though, don't think that will happen.

The MGUK output would be reduced to 300kW, but the recovery would be still 350kW.

There have been discussions about increasing the recovery to 450kW, but I'm sure that would require a new MGUK.

Battery capacity may be raised to 5MJ. Not sure how that helps, but it may be possible without changing the physical battery.

[AR3-GP]

Battery capacity may be raised to 5MJ. Not sure how that helps, but it may be possible without changing the physical battery.

The extra 1MJ means the 300kW can be deployed for an additional 3.3 seconds. It has far reaching consequences. It will probably mean qualifying will be at 100% again when combined with the 60/40 split on 90% of the tracks. No more coasting up to the line before a qualy run to save energy (which also confuses the viewers and other drivers).

[Cold Fussion]

The MGUK output would be reduced to 300kW, but the recovery would be still 350kW.

There have been discussions about increasing the recovery to 450kW, but I'm sure that would require a new MGUK.

Battery capacity may be raised to 5MJ. Not sure how that helps, but it may be possible without changing the physical battery.

Wouldn't the battery more likely be the limit on regen? Already at 350 kW the C rates are extreme. If the battery capacity raising to 5 MJ results in a physically larger battery than that would also mean they can regen at a higher power for the same charge rate.

[wuzak]

Battery capacity may be raised to 5MJ. Not sure how that helps, but it may be possible without changing the physical battery.

The extra 1MJ means the 300kW can be deployed for an additional 3.3 seconds. It has far reaching consequences. It will probably mean qualifying will be at 100% again when combined with the 60/40 split on 90% of the tracks. No more coasting up to the line before a qualy run to save energy (which also confuses the viewers and other drivers).

But it is the energy recovery that dictates the amount that can be deployed in the race.

Note that the deployment is unlimited, so extra battery means extra deployment on the qualifying lap. Would still have the allowed amount of recovery on the lap.

[mzso]

Can be solved with hypothetical technology that isn’t real yet. We’ve already been over this but the Gen 4 FE car actually has lower energy density batteries than Gen 3.

Luckily F1 seems to have understood this now and they are moving towards a sensible “entertainment first” formula instead of trying to placate the zealots.

You mean current technology and some custom design work...