2026 Hybrid Powerunits

[mzso]

Entertainment is being able to push a car in the corners, it's being able to brake at 6G from 300 kph. What we have now is a watered down product. As for the noise I don't care too much if it's a V6 or a V8, just as long as it makes some kind of noise. Having no noise (like FE) is kind of like watching a movie on mute.

As for everyone beside you we can't measure g force by looking, so it doesn't get us excited.
I see entertainment mainly on on track action, and amusement in modern/pioneering technology. NA V8/V10 is just outright regressive, backward.

[mzso]

Battery capacity may be raised to 5MJ. Not sure how that helps, but it may be possible without changing the physical battery.

The extra 1MJ means the 300kW can be deployed for an additional 3.3 seconds. It has far reaching consequences. It will probably mean qualifying will be at 100% again when combined with the 60/40 split on 90% of the tracks. No more coasting up to the line before a qualy run to save energy (which also confuses the viewers and other drivers).

But it is the energy recovery that dictates the amount that can be deployed in the race.

Note that the deployment is unlimited, so extra battery means extra deployment on the qualifying lap. Would still have the allowed amount of recovery on the lap.

Where is this coming from. Is it your proposal? Do you mean that they could increase SOC by 25%? I don't think F1 teams are working with that much safety margin. Willingly anyway. Not sure by how much the minimum weight superseeds the needed weight for current regs.

[michl420]

They driving this battery since 2014. With the development that battery technology has made in 12 years, 25 % more storage must be possible.

[Badger]

Entertainment is being able to push a car in the corners, it's being able to brake at 6G from 300 kph. What we have now is a watered down product. As for the noise I don't care too much if it's a V6 or a V8, just as long as it makes some kind of noise. Having no noise (like FE) is kind of like watching a movie on mute.

As for everyone beside you we can't measure g force by looking, so it doesn't get us excited.
I see entertainment mainly on on track action, and amusement in modern/pioneering technology. NA V8/V10 is just outright regressive, backward.

We get it you wanted full electrification but the sport's leadership is clearly moving in a different direction. There's FE for you.

[gearboxtrouble]

I have no idea why EV evangelists want to make F1 FE. This is why we have different motorsports. FE exists to push BEV boundaries and to test if there's any audience for purely electric racing. WEC's goal is to maximize efficiency and endurance and push hybrid tech. F1 should be all about allowing the best drivers to push loud, exciting cars unconstrained by energy management and efficiency concerns. F1 cars should be fast as is safe and as light as possible to go a full race distance without refueling. Sustainable fuels allows us to greenwash it and stay ICE centric - its always been ridiculous that the focus has been on performatively greening the cars when 95% of F1's emissions comes from flying the whole circus around the world.

[venkyhere]

I have no idea why EV evangelists want to make F1 FE. This is why we have different motorsports. FE exists to push BEV boundaries and to test if there's any audience for purely electric racing. WEC's goal is to maximize efficiency and endurance and push hybrid tech. F1 should be all about allowing the best drivers to push loud, exciting cars unconstrained by energy management and efficiency concerns. F1 cars should be fast as is safe and as light as possible to go a full race distance without refueling. Sustainable fuels allows us to greenwash it and stay ICE centric - its always been ridiculous that the focus has been on performatively greening the cars when 95% of F1's emissions comes from flying the whole circus around the world.

Bingo. You spoke my mind.

[wuzak]

The extra 1MJ means the 300kW can be deployed for an additional 3.3 seconds. It has far reaching consequences. It will probably mean qualifying will be at 100% again when combined with the 60/40 split on 90% of the tracks. No more coasting up to the line before a qualy run to save energy (which also confuses the viewers and other drivers).

But it is the energy recovery that dictates the amount that can be deployed in the race.

Note that the deployment is unlimited, so extra battery means extra deployment on the qualifying lap. Would still have the allowed amount of recovery on the lap.

Where is this coming from. Is it your proposal? Do you mean that they could increase SOC by 25%? I don't think F1 teams are working with that much safety margin. Willingly anyway. Not sure by how much the minimum weight superseeds the needed weight for current regs.

No, it is not my proposal.

I saw it in an article or video about the 2027 changes, but I can't find where I saw it.

In any case, the 4MJ SOC is not the actual capacity of the battery. They may be able to increase the SOC, without increasing the actual capacity of the battery.

The safety margin might be going to reliability for 2 batteries per season. Reduced safety margins could lead to more batteries used per season.

[ispano6]

No one is asking F1 to be FE. What we do expect is F1 to be the Pinnacle of motorsport technology. Anyone who thinks that the equation doesn't include electrification is sorely out of touch with modern tech.

Sure, go back to your antiquated low tech cost saving junk. F1 fans talk about being fans of the sport but they certainly aren't the ones who are following F1 for the TECH.

No one has talked about bringing back the MGUH. Why. just go back to the previous Formula but with full sustainable fuel. sheesh

[Tommy Cookers]

since 2014 the ICE running has been (disadvantageously) rigged to benefit the ERS
ie it is forced to run predominantly at high rpm - in an economy race

yes the combination is (as I said 12 years ago) 'commendably ingenious' - so what ?
it's a 'solution' to what should be a non-existent problem (pretending that 300 hp road cars are acceptable)
and it wouldn't be able to beat ICE-only on a track
the lightest car in a WDC F1 race weighed 490 lb


the higher the expansion ratio and the higher the AFR the less beneficial will be the MGU-H - so why have it ?

[gearboxtrouble]

since 2014 the ICE running has been (disadvantageously) rigged to benefit the ERS
ie it is forced to run predominantly at high rpm - in an economy race

yes the combination is (as I said 12 years ago) 'commendably ingenious' - so what ?
it's a 'solution' to what should be a non-existent problem (pretending that 300 hp road cars are acceptable)
and it wouldn't be able to beat ICE-only on a track
the lightest car in a WDC F1 race weighed 490 lb


the higher the expansion ratio and the higher the AFR the less beneficial will be the MGU-H - so why have it ?

This - the MGUH would also be far less effective with the less energetic sustainable fuels. Running a 25 engine with these fuels would set off a negative feedback loop with less ICE energy leading to less thermal energy for the MGUH leading to more clipping and less power.

Also Power/Weight >>>>> Power. No big battery electric component is positive power/weight because of the inherent inferiority of the energy density of batteries. The battery needs to be just big enough to harvest otherwise wasted brake energy and no more. Smaller, lighter cars while maintaining crash safety should be the goal.

[AR3-GP]

But it is the energy recovery that dictates the amount that can be deployed in the race.

Note that the deployment is unlimited, so extra battery means extra deployment on the qualifying lap. Would still have the allowed amount of recovery on the lap.

Right but if you are on a circuit where you can run the MGU-K at 300kW full time because you started the lap with an extra 1MJ, then even if you are allowed to recover up to 9MJ, there is simply no point because the lap is already saturated with deployment from braking energy and 5MJ batt. This is for qualifying. Does that make sense?

The effect is lesser in the races, but it should reduce the closing speeds somewhat because the defending driver and/or overtaker can have a consistent power level for longer.

[diffuser]

Is this actually confirmed or just speculation? As far as I know we don't know the pack weight for the gen4 cars yet. Even if it is a bit heavier, the higher power density makes for a far more interesting car, and IMO it's the direction road cars should have taken vs having longer range and slow charging.

it's on the formula1.com https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Yt9rb8zcJB

“The measures agreed in principle today for 2027 would see a nominal increase in Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) power by ~50kW alongside a fuel-flow increase and a nominal reduction of the Energy Recovery System (ERS) deployment power by ~50kW.”


they don't say anything about the battery though ... They just say "Further detailed discussion in technical groups, comprising teams and power unit manufacturers, will take place before the final package is decided."

My Money is that they don't change homogenization on the battery or the MGU-K. They just limit the amount they can deploy on the MGU-K. Be nice if they let them recharge at 350KW though, don't think that will happen.

The MGUK output would be reduced to 300kW, but the recovery would be still 350kW.

There have been discussions about increasing the recovery to 450kW, but I'm sure that would require a new MGUK.

Battery capacity may be raised to 5MJ. Not sure how that helps, but it may be possible without changing the physical battery.

That would be nice but is that just talk now or is that actual direction they're going to.

[mzso]

Entertainment is being able to push a car in the corners, it's being able to brake at 6G from 300 kph. What we have now is a watered down product. As for the noise I don't care too much if it's a V6 or a V8, just as long as it makes some kind of noise. Having no noise (like FE) is kind of like watching a movie on mute.

As for everyone beside you we can't measure g force by looking, so it doesn't get us excited.
I see entertainment mainly on on track action, and amusement in modern/pioneering technology. NA V8/V10 is just outright regressive, backward.

We get it you wanted full electrification but the sport's leadership is clearly moving in a different direction. There's FE for you.

You always shift everything towards BS, and not on the point of the argument...

I have no idea why EV evangelists want to make F1 FE. This is why we have different motorsports. FE exists to push BEV boundaries and to test if there's any audience for purely electric racing. WEC's goal is to maximize efficiency and endurance and push hybrid tech. F1 should be all about allowing the best drivers to push loud, exciting cars unconstrained by energy management and efficiency concerns. F1 cars should be fast as is safe and as light as possible to go a full race distance without refueling. Sustainable fuels allows us to greenwash it and stay ICE centric - its always been ridiculous that the focus has been on performatively greening the cars when 95% of F1's emissions comes from flying the whole circus around the world.

We were talking about F1 being considered "the pinnacle". Well it certainly isn't in the technology area when it's devolving it's drive into V8 NA. Pinnacle of technology would be to use the most advanced tech.

This proposed formula doesn't accomplish anything. Neither small, fast and light cars, nor cutting edge technology use. It's meaningless.

[mzso]

We get it you wanted full electrification but the sport's leadership is clearly moving in a different direction. There's FE for you.

You always shift everything towards BS, and not on the point of the argument...

You had no point. Trying to suggest that high G force doesn't get people excited because the eye can't read out a G number That's like saying it doesn't matter what speed the car is going because the eye isn't a speedometer.

If you can't appreciate speed, acceleration, and sound you should go watch FE.

You're rambling without any particular connection to what you respond to, or what the conversation was about.
And besides, no-one cares about the g-force values. People care about fast cars, and action.

[BassVirolla]

You always shift everything towards BS, and not on the point of the argument...

You had no point. Trying to suggest that high G force doesn't get people excited because the eye can't read out a G number That's like saying it doesn't matter what speed the car is going because the eye isn't a speedometer.

If you can't appreciate speed, acceleration, and sound you should go watch FE.

You're rambling without any particular connection to what you respond to, or what the conversation was about.
And besides, no-one cares about the g-force values. People care about fast cars, and action.

Seeing F1 cars trackside I can swear that you really appreciate G-forces. In the flesh, the F1 cars look much faster than "physically" feasible (a.k.a. with only gravity related grip, non aero).