Concept power units from 2030

[DenBommer]

Because it's not a V10, obviously.
So the main difference is that it can be decoupled? I don't think it's worth the added weight and complexity. I don't think there's any need to change the FE concept (but making it more extreme for F1). Stick as big of a motor there as as long the added weight is worth it. (I would set a max weight only) and use it for regen braking as much as possible and for drive as much as useful.

So you would also be in favour of AWD for Formula 1 in the future?

Why not? If the generator/motor is already there. Otherwise it's just dead weight during acceleration. Also the front wheels would be more useful, now they just roll with the car.

And apart from that, in your opinion should Formula 1 be allowed to go AWD?

[Tommy Cookers]

So you would also be in favour of AWD for Formula 1 in the future?

Why not? If the generator/motor is already there. Otherwise it's just dead weight during acceleration. Also the front wheels would be more useful, now they just roll with the car.

F1 was for decades of course allowed to be AWD

the generator/motor is already already there if the gearbox output is also connected to the front wheels
so all generation/motoring is at an ideal voltage (& front:rear differential synthetic ie without dedicated mechanism)

FE is of course idealogically opposed to that (though mechanically disconnecting the electric machine is now trending)

[DenBommer]

So you would also be in favour of AWD for Formula 1 in the future?

Why not? If the generator/motor is already there. Otherwise it's just dead weight during acceleration. Also the front wheels would be more useful, now they just roll with the car.

F1 was for decades of course allowed to be AWD

the generator/motor is already already there if the gearbox output is also connected to the front wheels
so all generation/motoring is at an ideal voltage (& front:rear differential synthetic ie without dedicated mechanism)

FE is of course idealogically opposed to that (though mechanically disconnecting the electric machine is now trending)

And why has F1 always stayed RWD? With a few exceptions.

I assume that making F1 AWD today will have less of an impact on the car than it would have so many years ago.

[Tommy Cookers]

And why has F1 always stayed RWD?

because AWD wasn't protected by artificially high minimum weight limits

[mzso]

So you would also be in favour of AWD for Formula 1 in the future?

Why not? If the generator/motor is already there. Otherwise it's just dead weight during acceleration. Also the front wheels would be more useful, now they just roll with the car.

And apart from that, in your opinion should Formula 1 be allowed to go AWD?

You pretty much asked the same thing. I thought "yes" was obvious from my reply.

And why has F1 always stayed RWD? With a few exceptions.

I assume that making F1 AWD today will have less of an impact on the car than it would have so many years ago.

It seems to me that they didn't think it was worth it with 70s technology. And in the early eighties, the status quo got banned everything they weren't doing already.

[DenBommer]

Why not? If the generator/motor is already there. Otherwise it's just dead weight during acceleration. Also the front wheels would be more useful, now they just roll with the car.

And apart from that, in your opinion should Formula 1 be allowed to go AWD?

You pretty much asked the same thing. I thought "yes" was obvious from my reply.

And why has F1 always stayed RWD? With a few exceptions.

I assume that making F1 AWD today will have less of an impact on the car than it would have so many years ago.

It seems to me that they didn't think it was worth it with 70s technology. And in the early eighties, the status quo got banned everything they weren't doing already.

What puts me off about an F1 car with AWD is that it would be too easy to drive.

The fun thing now is that you sometimes still see them fighting with their car. Or that the rear end steps out. Maybe this could be compensated by, for example, 900 hp on the rear axle and 150 hp on the front axle?

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

[mzso]

What puts me off about an F1 car with AWD is that it would be too easy to drive.

The fun thing now is that you sometimes still see them fighting with their car. Or that the rear end steps out. Maybe this could be compensated by, for example, 900 hp on the rear axle and 150 hp on the front axle?

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

I doubt it. I don't think WRC drivers complain that it's too easy to drive, with a lot less power and a lot more weight.
Plus Coulthard nearly lost it at one point in that FE video.

The not fun thing about today's F1 cars is that because they're so long, etc the rear remain very stable, but when it goes it really goes, so it inhibits some more interesting moves/driving.
Leclerc mentioned something like this after he drove one of the Schumacher era cars.

[Zynerji]

AWD with vector drive would be a huge talent showcase if you put the vector on triggers the driver would need to master.

[mzso]

AWD with vector drive would be a huge talent showcase if you put the vector on triggers the driver would need to master.

I see no reason for that.
The drivers don't control the differential either. No-one urges that they should control manually which side gets more power.

[DenBommer]

I’m curious whether Toto Wolff’s ‘mega engine’ would also include an MGU-K on the front axle, considering Mercedes owns a large stake in Yasa and its axial-flux motor technology.

[Cold Fussion]

AWD with vector drive would be a huge talent showcase if you put the vector on triggers the driver would need to master.

I see no reason for that.
The drivers don't control the differential either. No-one urges that they should control manually which side gets more power.

The drivers are still having to actively select the differential map, it isn't being dynamically adjusted for optimum balance and traction automatically by the ECU.

[Zynerji]

AWD with vector drive would be a huge talent showcase if you put the vector on triggers the driver would need to master.

I see no reason for that.
The drivers don't control the differential either. No-one urges that they should control manually which side gets more power.

I'd vector the current diff on a driver trigger as well. The more the driver is controlling instead of the computer, the better.

[mzso]

AWD with vector drive would be a huge talent showcase if you put the vector on triggers the driver would need to master.

I see no reason for that.
The drivers don't control the differential either. No-one urges that they should control manually which side gets more power.

I'd vector the current diff on a driver trigger as well. The more the driver is controlling instead of the computer, the better.

Meanwhile manual clutch and gearbox, right? Every finger and all limbs in use to manage the car. Turning drivers into human computers. They already change multiple settings, several times during a lap.

I'm not fond of such primitive. Such meaningless repetitive tasks are very much what computers are for.
And in the case of torque/brake vectoring they could just simply manipulate it with the steering wheel.

[Zynerji]

I see no reason for that.
The drivers don't control the differential either. No-one urges that they should control manually which side gets more power.

I'd vector the current diff on a driver trigger as well. The more the driver is controlling instead of the computer, the better.

Meanwhile manual clutch and gearbox, right? Every finger and all limbs in use to manage the car. Turning drivers into human computers. They already change multiple settings, several times during a lap.

I'm not fond of such primitive. Such meaningless repetitive tasks are very much what computers are for.
And in the case of torque/brake vectoring they could just simply manipulate it with the steering wheel.

Wait a second. I'm down with deleting 100% of the driver controls beyond steering, shifting, brake balance and differential control. You know, then its about actual driver skill and not GPS triggered ECU map changes and hybrid energy pendulums.

Any tool that allows the driver to have direct control of mid-corner car balancing are exactly what I feel should be added. Then it becomes skill, and not automated.

[Tommy Cookers]

... Any tool that allows the driver to have direct control of mid-corner car balancing are exactly what I feel should be added. Then it becomes skill, and not automated.

aeroplane drivers have been doing this for 100 years ie differential braking (also differential throttling)

it seems implausible to use one MG via some weird, complicated and wasteful mechanical variable differential .....
when two (smaller) independent MGs could be used without any mechanical differential
signal arithmetic ie summing & differencing small voltages is far better than summing and differencing actual forces