2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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OverheatedTurbo
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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Third rate chassis deffo showed up in Monaco vs the first class chassis. All that talk about the Ferrari being fastest in the corners were effectively snuffed this weekend.

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AR3-GP
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Mercedes boss Toto Wolff has admitted he fears rival teams could try and use "gamesmanship" to take advantage of the new engine rule.

Speaking to media including Crash.net on 20 April, Wolff said: "The principle of ADUO was to allow teams that were on the back foot in terms of the power unit to catch up, but not to leapfrog.

"And it needs to be very clear that whatever decisions are being made, whichever team is granted ADUO, that any such decision may have a big impact on the performance picture and on the championship, if not done with absolute precision and clarity and transparency.

"It needs to be clear that gamesmanship hasn't got any place here, but it needs to be with the right spirit here that the FIA acts upon an ADUO.

"The teams will have their performance pictures and, as it seems for me, there's one engine manufacturer that has a problem and we need to help. And then all the others are pretty much in the same ballpark.

"I would be very surprised, actually, and disappointed if ADUO decisions that were done would come up with any interferences into the competitive pecking order as it stands at the moment."
https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1092945/1 ... ine%20rule.
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zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 21:32
zibby43 wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 21:01
Gillian wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 20:26
This is very confusing to me. The consensus was I think that Mercedes had the best ICE and therefore had better harvesting but that then does not seem to be the case? Where's the advantage then?
The first question you have to ask is “who constituted the consensus.” I remember a few articles early in the season suggesting that RB had developed the most powerful ICE.

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/wher ... stacks-up/

These PUs are complex and Merc may have been the best at optimizing their entire package. I also think some of their straight line performance can be attributed to their excellent aero efficiency, something that was underrated in the early turbo hybrid as well.
There's nothing that supports Mercedes not having the best overall PU. They have simply exploited a blind spot in the ADUO decision process. A PU is not an ICE. It is an ICE and a hybrid. Whether they negotiated to remove the compression ratio thing, or detuned the ICE because the hybrid worked so well, they've done something that allows them to get ADUO even though they are already the best PU.
Please give me some evidence that supports your conclusion that Merc have actively exploited something. I haven’t seen any. Looking forward to the exclusive insight.

zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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OverheatedTurbo wrote:
07 Jun 2026, 23:05
Third rate chassis deffo showed up in Monaco vs the first class chassis. All that talk about the Ferrari being fastest in the corners were effectively snuffed this weekend.
Big-time. It was already growing tiresome hearing the “Merc is all engine” chatter. Lapping the field on the least-power sensitive circuit on the calendar has to make the Brackley boys feel good.

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:33

Please give me some evidence that supports your conclusion that Merc have actively exploited something. I haven’t seen any. Looking forward to the exclusive insight.
It's a figure of speech. I'm pointing to using half of the PU (ice index) to unlock tokens for both sides of the PU (ice + hybrid). It is a convergence system with a significant blind spot. If that blind spot is this big that it would grant Mercedes ADUO, then it is not fit to be called a convergence system.
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SiLo
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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The issue is not then having a seperate version of ADUO for the electrical powertrain. Mercedes have blown everyone out of the water with their harvesting and deployment but now it gets to compound that advantage.
Felipe Baby!

zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:48
zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:33

Please give me some evidence that supports your conclusion that Merc have actively exploited something. I haven’t seen any. Looking forward to the exclusive insight.
It's a figure of speech. I'm pointing to using half of the PU (ice index) to unlock tokens for both sides of the PU (ice + hybrid). It is a convergence system with a significant blind spot. If that blind spot is this big that it would grant Mercedes ADUO, then it is not fit to be called a convergence system.
ADUO is a cost cap relief mechanism, not a BoP system. If a manufacturer’s ICE is measured to be 2% or more behind the leading benchmark, they are granted regulatory and financial leeway to develop their engine. It’s always been framed this broadly from the public disclosures I’ve seen.

zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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SiLo wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:54
The issue is not then having a seperate version of ADUO for the electrical powertrain. Mercedes have blown everyone out of the water with their harvesting and deployment but now it gets to compound that advantage.
They are given a financial and regulatory opportunity to do so but they still have to execute.

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AR3-GP
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zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 02:58
AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:48
zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:33

Please give me some evidence that supports your conclusion that Merc have actively exploited something. I haven’t seen any. Looking forward to the exclusive insight.
It's a figure of speech. I'm pointing to using half of the PU (ice index) to unlock tokens for both sides of the PU (ice + hybrid). It is a convergence system with a significant blind spot. If that blind spot is this big that it would grant Mercedes ADUO, then it is not fit to be called a convergence system.
ADUO is a cost cap relief mechanism, not a BoP system. If a manufacturer’s ICE is measured to be 2% or more behind the leading benchmark, they are granted regulatory and financial leeway to develop their engine. It’s always been framed this broadly from the public disclosures I’ve seen.
I didn't say it's BOP. It is a catch-up mechanism. That's why I said convergence. Toto Wolff explained this already:

Speaking to media including Crash.net on 20 April, Wolff said: "The principle of ADUO was to allow teams that were on the back foot in terms of the power unit to catch up, but not to leapfrog.


https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1092945/1 ... ine%20rule

So yes the spirit is a convergence system. Trailing PU manufacturers should catch up but not leapfrog. The current system does not prevent that. We can see immediately that it has failed when Mercedes has been permitted upgrades when they don't need them since they are the leading power unit. It was always meant to converge the entire power unit, not just the ICE. That's why the tokens allow you additional upgrades on the hybrid. This is an oversight in the implementation. The leading PU manufacturer has been mistakenly granted benefits that promote getting further ahead, rather than allowing the real trailing manufacturers to catch up.

Toto Wolff said that no one needed ADUO except for Honda.
"The teams will have their performance pictures and, as it seems for me, there's one engine manufacturer that has a problem and we need to help. And then all the others are pretty much in the same ballpark.
So what are we doing here? If one's initial reaction to the announcement was shock or surprise, then it's 100% because the system failed.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 08 Jun 2026, 03:14, edited 1 time in total.
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zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:06
zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 02:58
AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 01:48


It's a figure of speech. I'm pointing to using half of the PU (ice index) to unlock tokens for both sides of the PU (ice + hybrid). It is a convergence system with a significant blind spot. If that blind spot is this big that it would grant Mercedes ADUO, then it is not fit to be called a convergence system.
ADUO is a cost cap relief mechanism, not a BoP system. If a manufacturer’s ICE is measured to be 2% or more behind the leading benchmark, they are granted regulatory and financial leeway to develop their engine. It’s always been framed this broadly from the public disclosures I’ve seen.
I didn't say it's BOP. It is a catch-up mechanism. That's why I said convergence. Toto Wolff explained this already:

Speaking to media including Crash.net on 20 April, Wolff said: "The principle of ADUO was to allow teams that were on the back foot in terms of the power unit to catch up, but not to leapfrog.


https://www.crash.net/f1/news/1092945/1 ... ine%20rule

So yes the spirit is a convergence system. Trailing PU manufacturers should catch up but not leapfrog. The current system does not prevent that. We can see immediately that it has failed when Mercedes has been permitted upgrades when they don't need them since they are the leading power unit. It was always meant to converge the entire power unit, not just the ICE. That's why the tokens allow you additional upgrades on the hybrid. This is an oversight in the implementation. The leading PU manufacturer has been mistakenly granted benefits that promote getting further ahead, rather than allowing the real trailing manufacturers to catch up.
Who is a trailing manufacturer that is not being allowed to catch up?

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AR3-GP
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zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:14
Who is a trailing manufacturer that is not being allowed to catch up?
Everyone that is not Mercedes-Benz

It should have been only Honda who is allowed to improve, as Toto Wolff said. If being generous, then also add Audi, Ferrari, and RBPT. but to see Mercedes in the list? the whole thing is backwards and has not achieved any "catchup" of anything because Mercedes are freed to go further ahead.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 08 Jun 2026, 03:18, edited 1 time in total.
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zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:15
zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:14
Who is a trailing manufacturer that is not being allowed to catch up?
Everyone that is not Mercedes-Benz
Haven’t Ferrari, Audi, and Honda all been granted ADUO?

As a follow-up to your edit, why should the most powerful ICE (RBPT) be given ADUO but not the best energy recovery (Merc, apparently)? What is the logic there?

Mercedes was given the least scope under ADUO. The other manufacturers have more ample opportunity to make improvements. RBPT’s potential is there based on ICE output if they can get their car’s weight down and figure out harvesting and deployment optimization. Without needing a new spec.

The best system is NO ADUO and each team is free to spend their money how they see fit.
Last edited by zibby43 on 08 Jun 2026, 03:24, edited 1 time in total.

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AR3-GP
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:17
AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:15
zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:14
Who is a trailing manufacturer that is not being allowed to catch up?
Everyone that is not Mercedes-Benz
Haven’t Ferrari, Audi, and Honda all been granted ADUO?
RBPT

The only real scenarios for ADUO should have been:

1) Honda only
2) Honda and Audi
3) Honda, Audi, Ferrari
4) Honda, Audi, Ferrari, RBPT
5) Open development to all

Any other scenario doesn't make sense. This is a catchup mechanism for the PU. If the outcome of that mechanism is a "go further ahead Mercedes", then it doesn't work.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 08 Jun 2026, 03:25, edited 1 time in total.
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zibby43
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Re: 2026 Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:20
zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:17
AR3-GP wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:15


Everyone that is not Mercedes-Benz
Haven’t Ferrari, Audi, and Honda all been granted ADUO?
RBPT

The only real scenarios for ADUO should have been:

1) Honda only
2) Honda and Audi
3) Honda, Audi, Ferrari
4) Honda, Audi, Ferrari, RBPT
5) Open development to all

Any other scenario doesn't make sense.
As a follow-up to your edit, why should the most powerful ICE (RBPT) be given ADUO but not the best energy recovery (Merc, apparently)? What is the logic there?

And I’m fine with solution 5. In fact, I prefer it above all else.

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AR3-GP
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zibby43 wrote:
08 Jun 2026, 03:25

As a follow-up to your edit, why should the most powerful ICE (RBPT) be given ADUO but not the best energy recovery (Merc, apparently)? What is the logic there?

And I’m fine with solution 5. In fact, I prefer it above all else.
Because ADUO should be implemented for the entire PU including the Hybrid. Otherwise why should there be a measurement process for the ICE which grants additional development items for the Hybrid system. That is what the current system does. So the Mercedes class leading hybrid system is now allowed to get further ahead, while Red Bull are actually blocked from improving their hybrid system until 2028 according to the regulations, simply because of the ICE rating. This has no logic.

Image


Image

You can see now that this is not a PU catchup mechanism like Toto Wolff requested. This scheme will allow Mercedes to increase their PU margin.
Last edited by AR3-GP on 08 Jun 2026, 03:34, edited 2 times in total.
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