2026 Aston Martin Aramco Formula One Team

[etusch]

Do not forget that Alonso beat Gasly at Zandvoort two weeks ago. Now he is 2 1/2 seconds slower than Gasly. I wonder what changed?

Looking at the gap between Gasly and his teammate, and considering he's won here before with a mid-field team, Gasly's himself makes a considerable difference here. It also seems the Mercedes engine has an advantage on this track. The car might have some kind of suit for low aerodynamics or a preference for the track. It's not new for different drivers and cars to perform better on different tracks.

[diffuser]

So, how draggy do you think the AMR is, compared to the others, of course.

I'd wager that the lack of top end speed is likely 25% extra drag, 75% missing power (remember, drag consumes extra power as a cubic law so its (delta) effect in top speed feels kind of tripled (as 1.01 cubed is 1.0303). But again, I - don't - know.

I don't think you know, so don't be so fast to dismiss other's points.

What - do - you - THINK?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/what- ... hatgpt.com
Shintaro Orihara "Our engine performance is definitely poor compared to other manufacturers. So probably the most important point to improve now is our engine performance because, as I mentioned, the gap is quite huge.


I see no reason to believe that the AMR26 is any more that 1 or 2 % better or worse draggy that other cars.

Mmmm...

I guess Shintaro Orihara should have said "I - THINK"...

It kind of sucks that they haven't updated the F1 tools. It would be really interesting to see where teams are deploying electrical energy, how much and how much charge the battery has. If Drag is the problem why can't the AMR26 get to 316km/h at every straight ? It isn't drag holding it back at 302km/h in the 3ird straight.

There are basically 4 straights and he Williams is minimum 10kg heavier than the AMR26

    1st,2nd,3ird,4th
ALO 316,288,302,303
SAI 331,301,324,314

https://www.gp-tempo.com/app?year=2026& ... =telemetry

[Sedaxel]

The AMR26 isn’t only a draggy car, it’s also a heavy car. that combination is particularly punishing at Monza.
The weight penalty is not 0.3 s per 10 kg anymore. As James Vowles has pointed out, a car overweight can cost more than the traditional 0.3s. probably 0.5s per 10kg.

But we can continue to blame honda for the whole deficit.

Honda is NOT the only one to blame for the whole deficit.

Honda is the one to blame for the major part of the deficit right now.

We all want Honda to succeed and to bring a "normal" motor. Not asking for the best... Just a normal one. Currently, it's clearly the worst engine of the grid.

So apart from pointing out things as they are, let's give Honda the chance to improve their work. And to improve, neglecting the evidence doesn't help at all.

I've already criticized your mindset. Trying to find a valid reason for it would be more useful than repeating the same thing over and over. According to you, the car is very good, but it's not at the front because of the PU. (We experienced the same thing during the McLaren era. Then it turned out the car wasn't the best, and those who claimed their car was the best ended up ruining the team. Unfortunately, many names from that time have come together again in this same vein.)
However, There is no any explanation why at least half of the difference isn't due to the car itself. Wherever a big leap can be made, that's where the biggest deficit lies. In this kind of work, it's always harder to find those last little pieces.

What? You've criticized my mindset? Excuse me, I just don't get what you say.

Regarding the deficit: of course We can't be sure about how much is due to the chassis and the PU.

We do know some things, though:

1. In the beginning of the season, the car was more than 4s away.

2. With a chassis upgrade (not PU), the car went under 2s. This unequivocally tells us that the chassis has improved a lot. Nobody says that this chassis is the best. We say it has improved hugely. Telemetry also tells us that the less PU-dependant areas of last two circuits are reasonably good now.

3. PU improvement came... But We still don't see a clear improvement in speed. SO FAR the improvement has been massively insufficient. That's not to say that it can't be fixed, tuning several things. It only means that, currently, as of now, the PU is not delivering and it's the worst of the grid. Shintaro Orihara himself says the gap is huge.

And that's all. When I make a mistake in my job, I apologize and just try to fix it. I don't go around trying to convince everybody that I didn't make a mistake. It's not that hard, really.

[Sedaxel]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/what- ... hatgpt.com
Shintaro Orihara "Our engine performance is definitely poor compared to other manufacturers. So probably the most important point to improve now is our engine performance because, as I mentioned, the gap is quite huge.


I see no reason to believe that the AMR26 is any more that 1 or 2 % better or worse draggy that other cars.

Mmmm...

I guess Shintaro Orihara should have said "I - THINK"...

It kind of sucks that they haven't updated the F1 tools. It would be really interesting to see where teams are deploying electrical energy, how much and how much charge the battery has. If Drag is the problem why can't the AMR26 get to 316km/h at every straight ? It isn't drag holding it back at 302km/h in the 3ird straight.

There are basically 4 straights and he Williams is minimum 10kg heavier than the AMR26

    1st,2nd,3ird,4th
ALO 316,288,302,303
SAI 331,301,324,314

https://www.gp-tempo.com/app?year=2026& ... =telemetry

100% agree.

[Bisonas]

Also remember nobody is at minimum weight

At this point in the season, I very much doubt that.

... remember that in 2026 the front and rear wings go up on straight and not so straight parts of the race track. They are the parts of the car that create the 2nd most drag and they literally get out of the way. So in the past if you ran a bigger wing, you paid for it on the straights, in 2026 you don't. Also if you look at the air inlets on the car, which create the most drag, they have the smallest by a large margin...

If we are playing that game, I am sure thet the common consensus is that the rear wing creates the most drag, up to a third of the total drag in past generations of cars. So I challenge that 1-2 combo, as much as I challenge looking at the drag on any one element in isolation.

That quote is, again, assumptions, unbased guesses stated as fact, and opinion. Would it be so hard to add "IMO" or "I think" here and there. Do you think it makes your argument weaker somehow?

If the whole point of that is to say that the car is not draggy (read not draggier than the others) because the wings can flatten out, that is missing the forest for one particular tree. That wing can still be graggier when flattened compared to the others, plus every other part of the car can be draggier than the others, including the whole setup (rake anyone?) of the car. Newey does not have a penchant for producing the draggiest car in the field, not at all /sarcasm off/.

You can not conclude that the car is not a drag monster compared to the others (neither can I conclude the opposite). Let´s remember what we don't know and the extremely thick fog of war, please. We - don't - know!

That's useful time from your life spent on a thread that simply refuses to stick to the 'one thing' than an engineering-based-sport clearly makes 'relative performance' across competitors easy to judge - MEASURABLE UNITS. There is more phrases like 'my feeling says' , 'I dont think X or Y.. is responsible.' , 'I FEEL it's DEFINITELY engine/chassis/weight, even though I have no data' etc, in this thread, than one would find in a similar team thread in a football forum where people argue over 'what formation is best' (which isn't even 'measurable').

This thread seems more like a place where 'one set of feelings' goes to argue with 'another set of feelings' , instead of 'data inference A' pitted against 'data inference B'.

Please allow me the opportunity and the time to answer your post !!

So you are coming from a technical/engineering background, we get that.

You are frustrated when not engineering people come to the technical threads of this forum saying something not too technical and you down vote them on reputation. We can see that in your reputation history.

Then you come here to the AMR team thread to write what your just wrote.

Let me tell you how I see things!!

Yes this forum is called F1technical, BUT.. over the years this forum has involved to something much greater than this. It has involved in a place for people that love and follows F1 for many many years, to be able to express themselves and tell their opinion about anything is f1 related.
It’s a global F1 community and i am guessing (not sure), that by now, the not technical/engineering part of this community is bigger that the actual technical/engineering part.

Now lets speak about the engineering part of this forum and if all the other aspects of this forum are irrelevant or not.

Even in an an engineering-based-sport as you said, relative performance IS NOT always easy to judge. It may be easy to WITNESS yes, but is never easy to judge !! I don’t know if your tech-savvy character understands this.
Relative performance & measurable units in f1 gives us an estimation on how and why, but never gives us the actual facts or the absolute truth.

The fact (on many things in f1) is that we actually DO NOT now !!
We speculate, yes, analyze, yes, but especially this year with the complexity of the power deliver among internal combustion, harvesting and electrical deployment, the fact is that we just don’t know.
If you ask me, even other F1 teams that have access on much more data, especially regarding gps data and analysis, some things, well, they just don’t know for sure. We don’t know, because even if we have some data to analyze we never have them all.

Let’s take the DRAG situation regarding AMR for example. Please Tell us !!! how “a data inference A” pitted against 'data inference B' shows your tech-savvy mind that AMR is draggy, or not draggy, without knowing all the engine parameters ,meaning ICE & ERS parameters and data (IC power, clipping & harvesting in general).

Have no illusions my friend !! being an engineer, either engine engineer or aerodynamicist or what ever, doesn’t mean you have a better understating of F1 than me or others in this forum.

Lets say you are an engineer (engine, aerodynamicist or whatever) and I am a data analyst that follows F1 since early 90s. You think you are more fitted in this forum than me (or others like me)?? You think you understand F1 better than us ?? just because you understand how air flows over the car, or how brakes or suspension works??

I am an analyst and I don’t care how brakes work, or how air flows, I just care about how brakes perform and how the aero performs, because if have that set of data I can get to analyze them and get to conclusions.
All I care about is sets of data and information !! You thing me or some of us watching a race with one tv and 2 tablets in front of us, following live timing and on board radio of our “Driver of Interest” coms, have an inferior opinion about how things work in f1, and how a race progresses??

I don’t want to break it for you mate, but F1 strategists for examble nowadays are more mathematics and statistics-oriented than technical and engineering oriented!!
They don’t actually care how brakes or aero work for example they only care about performance data. Data they can analyze and come to conclusions!!

Yes some of us are biased or fans of a team or a driver but that does not make us lesser in any sort. Lets take me for example, I am a Mclaren fan, and Alonso fan which happens to be an IT engineer and data analysts that follows F1 since early 90s. I can spend hours analyzing a “Race of interest” or a “Driver of interest” rewatching onboards, radio coms and live timings just to be able to debate someone here in this forum.

This is, who I am so tell me.. do you thing my input is irrelevant? I remind you that you are not in the technical part of this forum right now !!

Tells us what you think !!

[mzso]

Do not forget that Alonso beat Gasly at Zandvoort two weeks ago. Now he is 2 1/2 seconds slower than Gasly. I wonder what changed?

What do you think? AM´s car is better than Alpine´s but the engine deficit is HUGE. As I said before, try to work out a deal with Red Bull, ffs

They don't need to work out a deal with RB. The manufacturer with the least teams is obligated to supply engines. New suppliers are exempt so it would be a Ferrari PU, which seems better than the Red Bull.
It's all about the contract with Honda, whether they need to or want to stick with them. Somehow I don't think they can easily break this contract if they're so inclined.

[Rikrikrik]

Honda has brought back veteran engineers from the Red Bull era experienced people and word is that they are scrapping the original plan, acknowledging that the 2026 engine architecture was flawed and committing to changes and improvements. The big question is: will they be able—now with the likes of Cowell on board—to produce something at least on par with the competition by 2027, or are we looking at another year of failure? Is it possible to improve enough to at least match a manufacturer like Audi, for instance?

[TyreSlip]

Honda has brought back veteran engineers from the Red Bull era experienced people and word is that they are scrapping the original plan, acknowledging that the 2026 engine architecture was flawed and committing to changes and improvements. The big question is: will they be able—now with the likes of Cowell on board—to produce something at least on par with the competition by 2027, or are we looking at another year of failure? Is it possible to improve enough to at least match a manufacturer like Audi, for instance?

70bhp is a lot to recover in one year. I would be happy to see Honda cut the deficit in half to start 2027.

[diffuser]

At this point in the season, I very much doubt that.


If we are playing that game, I am sure thet the common consensus is that the rear wing creates the most drag, up to a third of the total drag in past generations of cars. So I challenge that 1-2 combo, as much as I challenge looking at the drag on any one element in isolation.

That quote is, again, assumptions, unbased guesses stated as fact, and opinion. Would it be so hard to add "IMO" or "I think" here and there. Do you think it makes your argument weaker somehow?

If the whole point of that is to say that the car is not draggy (read not draggier than the others) because the wings can flatten out, that is missing the forest for one particular tree. That wing can still be graggier when flattened compared to the others, plus every other part of the car can be draggier than the others, including the whole setup (rake anyone?) of the car. Newey does not have a penchant for producing the draggiest car in the field, not at all /sarcasm off/.

You can not conclude that the car is not a drag monster compared to the others (neither can I conclude the opposite). Let´s remember what we don't know and the extremely thick fog of war, please. We - don't - know!

That's useful time from your life spent on a thread that simply refuses to stick to the 'one thing' than an engineering-based-sport clearly makes 'relative performance' across competitors easy to judge - MEASURABLE UNITS. There is more phrases like 'my feeling says' , 'I dont think X or Y.. is responsible.' , 'I FEEL it's DEFINITELY engine/chassis/weight, even though I have no data' etc, in this thread, than one would find in a similar team thread in a football forum where people argue over 'what formation is best' (which isn't even 'measurable').

This thread seems more like a place where 'one set of feelings' goes to argue with 'another set of feelings' , instead of 'data inference A' pitted against 'data inference B'.

Please allow me the opportunity and the time to answer your post !!

So you are coming from a technical/engineering background, we get that.

You are frustrated when not engineering people come to the technical threads of this forum saying something not too technical and you down vote them on reputation. We can see that in your reputation history.

Then you come here to the AMR team thread to write what your just wrote.

Let me tell you how I see things!!

Yes this forum is called F1technical, BUT.. over the years this forum has involved to something much greater than this. It has involved in a place for people that love and follows F1 for many many years, to be able to express themselves and tell their opinion about anything is f1 related.
It’s a global F1 community and i am guessing (not sure), that by now, the not technical/engineering part of this community is bigger that the actual technical/engineering part.

Now lets speak about the engineering part of this forum and if all the other aspects of this forum are irrelevant or not.

Even in an an engineering-based-sport as you said, relative performance IS NOT always easy to judge. It may be easy to WITNESS yes, but is never easy to judge !! I don’t know if your tech-savvy character understands this.
Relative performance & measurable units in f1 gives us an estimation on how and why, but never gives us the actual facts or the absolute truth.

The fact (on many things in f1) is that we actually DO NOT now !!
We speculate, yes, analyze, yes, but especially this year with the complexity of the power deliver among internal combustion, harvesting and electrical deployment, the fact is that we just don’t know.
If you ask me, even other F1 teams that have access on much more data, especially regarding gps data and analysis, some things, well, they just don’t know for sure. We don’t know, because even if we have some data to analyze we never have them all.

Let’s take the DRAG situation regarding AMR for example. Please Tell us !!! how “a data inference A” pitted against 'data inference B' shows your tech-savvy mind that AMR is draggy, or not draggy, without knowing all the engine parameters ,meaning ICE & ERS parameters and data (IC power, clipping & harvesting in general).

Have no illusions my friend !! being an engineer, either engine engineer or aerodynamicist or what ever, doesn’t mean you have a better understating of F1 than me or others in this forum.

Lets say you are an engineer (engine, aerodynamicist or whatever) and I am a data analyst that follows F1 since early 90s. You think you are more fitted in this forum than me (or others like me)?? You think you understand F1 better than us ?? just because you understand how air flows over the car, or how brakes or suspension works??

I am an analyst and I don’t care how brakes work, or how air flows, I just care about how brakes perform and how the aero performs, because if have that set of data I can get to analyze them and get to conclusions.
All I care about is sets of data and information !! You thing me or some of us watching a race with one tv and 2 tablets in front of us, following live timing and on board radio of our “Driver of Interest” coms, have an inferior opinion about how things work in f1, and how a race progresses??

I don’t want to break it for you mate, but F1 strategists for examble nowadays are more mathematics and statistics-oriented than technical and engineering oriented!!
They don’t actually care how brakes or aero work for example they only care about performance data. Data they can analyze and come to conclusions!!

Yes some of us are biased or fans of a team or a driver but that does not make us lesser in any sort. Lets take me for example, I am a Mclaren fan, and Alonso fan which happens to be an IT engineer and data analysts that follows F1 since early 90s. I can spend hours analyzing a “Race of interest” or a “Driver of interest” rewatching onboards, radio coms and live timings just to be able to debate someone here in this forum.

This is, who I am so tell me.. do you thing my input is irrelevant? I remind you that you are not in the technical part of this forum right now !!

Tells us what you think !!

I think your posts are balanced and interesting to read.

[diffuser]

Do not forget that Alonso beat Gasly at Zandvoort two weeks ago. Now he is 2 1/2 seconds slower than Gasly. I wonder what changed?

What do you think? AM´s car is better than Alpine´s but the engine deficit is HUGE. As I said before, try to work out a deal with Red Bull, ffs

They don't need to work out a deal with RB. The manufacturer with the least teams is obligated to supply engines. New suppliers are exempt so it would be a Ferrari PU, which seems better than the Red Bull.
It's all about the contract with Honda, whether they need to or want to stick with them. Somehow I don't think they can easily break this contract if they're so inclined.

I hope they stay with Honda. I hope the reason they stay is because Honda is making good progress in performance and R&D. We’ll see the results on track next year.

[Sedaxel]

Honda will deliver, yes. I'm confident... And destiny owes it to both Honda and Alonso!

[Jambier]

Honda has brought back veteran engineers from the Red Bull era experienced people and word is that they are scrapping the original plan, acknowledging that the 2026 engine architecture was flawed and committing to changes and improvements. The big question is: will they be able—now with the likes of Cowell on board—to produce something at least on par with the competition by 2027, or are we looking at another year of failure? Is it possible to improve enough to at least match a manufacturer like Audi, for instance?

70bhp is a lot to recover in one year. I would be happy to see Honda cut the deficit in half to start 2027.

Agreed.
Every other manufacturer will make progress this winter, so I would not be surprised if Honda is still 40hp behind next year.
They will finally be on par at the end of the regulation

[Xyz22]

The Honda engine is the worst engine ever made.
Already at the first braking zone Alonso was almost 0.4s behind Bottas.

[Jambier]

The Honda engine is the worst engine ever made.
Already at the first braking zone Alonso was almost 0.4s behind Bottas.

It is infinitely more reliable than 2015 one, but in terms of deficit to the best engine it may indeed actually be the worst in modern era

[Bisonas]

I think your posts are balanced and interesting to read.

Thank you, Diffuser. I find your input very informative as well, even though we’ve had our disagreements in the past. I don’t mind debating things on this forum. I always enjoy a good debate about F1.