Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
It's indeed strange, since nothing of the kind has surfaced in the traditional endurance media so, for now, I see it as only one more rumour concerning the 4th Peugeot at Le Mans 2010. Actually, most of the rumours about who'll be fielding this car proved to hold some true, like the mexican possibility or Highcroft who recognized to have had this process in analysis.
Another thing, this could still tie nicely with some of the possibilities open, since the news concern a car sponsored by Red Bull, but no word on which team is fielding it, so it could still be a Charouz, Pescarolo or Pesca/Charouz team under Red Bull branding. This could mean that one of the teams that was trying to secure the 908 has found backing (and drivers) from Red Bull.
Concerning the drivers, Loeb has already some experience in endurance, but will the other guys fit? Usually, F1 drivers with no experience in endurance have a hard time adjusting and seldom seem to understand how to be fast and consistent, while containing wear and damage and coping with multi-class traffic management. Thinking about how recently Coulthard was unable to finish some F1 sprints because of totally avoidable driving errors and bad decisions, I shiver when thinking about the poor Peugeot, with its terrible lateral visibilty. I'm unsure if he or Raikkonen, being surely very talented and fast sprint drivers, have the additional quality and intelligence needed to be a decent endurance racer.
CMSMJ1 wrote:DC has Le Mans win doesn't he?? 1994/1995?
No, he doesn't. But he does have a bit of endurance experience, a Le Mans entry in a TWR Jaguar XJ220 in 1993, where his car actually reached the checkered flag. That would have been a class win, if he wasn't disqualified.
In 2009 the works Peugeot team entered 3 cars of their own. Pescarolo were the first and only private team to enter a customer 908 HDi FAP LMP1 car. And they did very well... until something failed and Benoit Treluier ended up in a wall covered in bits of CF after going airborne across the gravel trap, the car was leased to Henri Pescarolo and he'd kinda forgotten to insure it
If the Pescarolo-Peugeot relationship didn't suffer we may see a 908 run by Pescarolo again, possibly sponsored by Red Bull.
CMSMJ1 wrote:DC has Le Mans win doesn't he?? 1994/1995?
No, he doesn't. But he does have a bit of endurance experience, a Le Mans entry in a TWR Jaguar XJ220 in 1993, where his car actually reached the checkered flag. That would have been a class win, if he wasn't disqualified.
That is the point I wanted to make - he was able to drive the car to the class win. Disqualified on a technicality or not - he made it to the finish..
XJ 220 is not exactly an lmp1 car...to count this towards experience seems to be a bit farfetched.
F1 and LeMans really do not have that much in common apart from carbonfibre brakes
and the fact that it is racing at the very limit.
In terms of overtaking and good judgement on reading traffic ,I´m sure these are two different galaxies really.
CMSMJ1 wrote:That is the point I wanted to make - he was able to drive the car to the class win. Disqualified on a technicality or not - he made it to the finish..
Besides the point that marcush made, I think it hardly may be considered experience in endurance one entry 17 years ago. It takes usually a lot of endurance experience to make a decent endurance racer and, in that point, Audi is the absolute reference. If they have a McNish or a Kristensen at the wheel, as good as they are, is because Audi has provided them a lot of endurance mileage.
every year you can see how difficult it is to get throu in LeMons without a major mishap,as you do not always have a full pro driver in front of you.More the sme car is driven by a pro and a paydriver or a celebrity or middleaged enthusiast,nothing wrong with that but the guys in LMP sometimes do not take this into account and then have to pay the price.
Also there are parts of this track were you should not take to many chances but then
you just not will have that speed as in reality you willnever have a clear lap until
the morning hours when most cars already have paid large tolls.
So all this is realy not in the portfolio of any F1 driver ,as these guys usually steamed thru the lower classes -raikonnen barely did racing before coming into F1
for example ,not even F3...so he has absolutely nothin under his belt in terms of dealing with traffic of this kind apart from driving on the streets...something surely also one of the things hurting loeb in his closed circuit racing ,against the clock is not comparable to having the hot breath in your neck.
Such a line up would be very exiting, and would bring yet more visibility to the event. But indeed with the Oreca move it seems unlikely...
Anyway it wouldn't have been simple to sort out, plus Kimi is certainly very skilled, but he couldn't possibly be competitive in the 908 without a good deal of testing miles. Even Loeb, who had lots of tests in the car (plus have Le Mans experience) said he was unsure to be ready pace-wise, and feared to be a dead weight for his team...
LeMans is a bit different to F1 .
The speeds and g-forces are sure comparable ,but the track is not comparable to anything you see in F1 ....the aspect of fear for life has to get to you when going into a lap and you already know you will have to lap cars running 100Kmh slower than you and handled by guys maybe not able to look into the mirror let alone being aware of what is going on around them.
a clear lap is not happening so you have to create really those opportunities you really have to be at home working the traffic.
so a clear and obvious point where Loeb who is a driving talent no question has nothing ,zero experience and possibly no talent as well at ...
Formula race drivers are normally used to high security tracks and they are used to avoiding muscling their ways thru traffic ... Coulthard will always remain in my memory for not being very versatile in lapping backmarkers ,but instead waving his hands in desperation following cars 3 seconds per lap slower...he´s the guy when hes on it he will be on pole and do a serene display of brilliant driving .
Kimi is definitively a man to watch there imo ,he will be silly quick that is for sure and the man has no second thoughts just eager competitiveness when he´s motivated .
marcush. wrote:....the aspect of fear for life has to get to you when going into a lap and you already know you will have to lap cars running 100Kmh slower than you and handled by guys maybe not able to look into the mirror let alone being aware of what is going on around them.
..so a clear and obvious point where Loeb who is a driving talent no question has nothing ,zero experience and possibly no talent as well at ...
Sure, but on the other hand Loeb is used to going flat out into a special stage already knowing he might have to avoid hitting anything from a silly spectator to a stray cow to a fallen tree trunk, running > 100km/h slower than him, sometimes right at the exit of a blind high speed corner with half a meter's worth of space between the car and a rock wall on the one side and a bottomless pit on the other..! Talk about fear for life!!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
ok ,you got a point there.
I´m not aware of just how often this is happeneing in rallying ...that you experience
people,animals etc ... but still valid no question.
Dealing with traffic and placing yourself to work the traffic still is a different world to leaving margins for not foreseable happenings on the track.
and of course there is no question that Loeb is an exceptional talent in rallying
but this seems not easily transferable to sportcars and F1 and reminds me of michael M.Schumacher once stating : racing with a roof over your head is just not for me ,don´t know why but I´m just not able to spread out my talent in a closed cockpit...
