Mclaren to be Merc 'B' team?

[Richard]

The car itself was probably the best on the grid already and Mercedes own the majority share in Mclaren so its looking quite good for them.

Their interests will be in the Mercedes team doing well as thats what will sell them more road cars and make them more money.

Presumably they are going to take any better technology from McLaren and put it on the Mercedes car.

No - Merc never had a majority share. They had 40% and have now sold it back to McL

No - Merc only did engines & KERS. The rest of the car was McL.

[axle]

OT - I don't buy this inferior Ferrari engine in the STR's...yes they may have used STR for a little experimentation, but I expect the engines were new.

[Pup]

No - Merc only did engines & KERS. The rest of the car was McL.

Actually, Zytek did the KERS.

[Richard]

No - Merc only did engines & KERS. The rest of the car was McL.

Actually, Zytek did the KERS.

Fair point.. but as a sub contractor to Merc? I thought it was a Merc branded KERS unit?

[Giblet]

OT - I don't buy this inferior Ferrari engine in the STR's...yes they may have used STR for a little experimentation, but I expect the engines were new.

They weren't. They were given higher mileage test engines from Ferrari. It was reported on every F1 site last year, including this one I beleive.

[Rob W]

I think the whole McLaren will get B-spec engine or lower service levels falls over if you consider that Merc probably need McLaren's gear-box knowledge (or the gearboxes in-full) at least in the short-term. Gearboxes are possibly a bigger cause for reliability issues than engines (does anyone know the relative failure rates of the last few seasons?)

[Pup]

No - Merc only did engines & KERS. The rest of the car was McL.

Actually, Zytek did the KERS.

Fair point.. but as a sub contractor to Merc? I thought it was a Merc branded KERS unit?

That I don't know. Merc certainly talked as if it were theirs.

[Richard]

Actually, Zytek did the KERS.

Fair point.. but as a sub contractor to Merc? I thought it was a Merc branded KERS unit?

That I don't know. Merc certainly talked as if it were theirs.

I think Merc engineered the packaging of the Zytek technology. So you'll probably find that Zytek provided the IP and possibly some components. Oh, and the actual batteries probably came from somewhere else, and the harvester/generator/motor from another company.

I suspect it is like the brake assembly. The constructor is more likely to be assembling a kit of parts from a number of suppliers rather actually making them.

Edit to add .....

http://www.zytekgroup.co.uk/Default.aspx?tid=405

The British high technology company Zytek Automotive developed the KERS electric motor and power electronics in close technical partnership with Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines. Other specialist suppliers are responsible for other elements of the KERS system including the battery pack.

[Skunk0001]

OT - I don't buy this inferior Ferrari engine in the STR's...yes they may have used STR for a little experimentation, but I expect the engines were new.

They weren't. They were given higher mileage test engines from Ferrari. It was reported on every F1 site last year, including this one I beleive.

As I remember, and according to the first article I found on the subject, they were being given old engines to run in practice, for reliability testing. I don't remember hearing anything about them using them on a Sunday.
http://www.autoevolution.com/news/toro- ... -7575.html

[Giblet]

Whether they had to use them in a race or in practice it doesn't matter. The team had to swap engines more often. The drivers had to practice and learn new tracks with underpowered engines, then have a different lump for the race.

No matter how you slice it, performance wise, it is entirely to the detriment of STR.

I am sure that financially it was a fine move for STR, and for Ferrari as they get to use the same engine twice. Once for usage, once for profit.

Thanks for finding the article, whatever key words I was firing at the Goog were not coming up roses.

But yeah that is a bit OT.

I just think that Mercedes have handled the use of their engines like real sportsmen, especially with Brawn and FIF1. I have seen no reason to think that Mercedes wants anything but the best engine they can put in any car.

how they handled Brawn, and didn't get all opportunistic in the season by slapping a giant star on the car was respectful and sportsmanlike. This is why the whole B team thing is just a little off. Merc doesn't want a sub par team with a Mercedes engine, or b team, and Mclaren will never be a B team.

[marcush.]

No - Merc only did engines & KERS. The rest of the car was McL.

Actually, Zytek did the KERS.

But Merc has a technical partnership with Zytek in place already -for development of EV - smartfortwo e -not just the old Zytek EV smart.
but then they also have announced a partnership with Tesla ..

[andartop]

Whether they had to use them in a race or in practice it doesn't matter.

Well..it does, really. Doesn't it?

The team had to swap engines more often. The drivers had to practice and learn new tracks with underpowered engines, then have a different lump for the race.
No matter how you slice it, performance wise, it is entirely to the detriment of STR.

Fair enough.

I am sure that financially it was a fine move for STR..

Obviously true, otherwise they wouldn't have agreed to something like that.

I just think that Mercedes have handled the use of their engines like real sportsmen, especially with Brawn and FIF1. I have seen no reason to think that Mercedes wants anything but the best engine they can put in any car.

Here's the thing. Mercedes were not competing in F1 as a factory team until now, thus had nothing to lose and everything to gain whether it was a McLaren, Brawn or FI car winning. On the contrary, Ferrari's image would receive a serious blow were a STR car to finish ahead of a Ferrari car, since Ferrari competes as a factory team: no one would praise the Ferrari engine at the back of the STR!

This has changed now though, and whether we'll see a return to the good old days when a Merc engine at the back of a McLaren was much more likely not to last the race distance (especially in the hands of Kimi) only remains to be seen.

[Craigy]

I think the whole McLaren will get B-spec engine or lower service levels falls over if you consider that Merc probably need McLaren's gear-box knowledge (or the gearboxes in-full) at least in the short-term.

Didn't Brawn use their own gearbox last year anyway? (ex-Honda gearbox?) - It wasn't great for Barrichello, having been overtorqued a few times on starts but I suspect that's the price for a hurriedly thrown together combination.

Craigy

[Dukeage]

I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren start building their own engine, the rules vaguely allow new engines to be homologated. Mahle build their road car lumps, so I guess that's who they would contract it out to.

[axle]

I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren start building their own engine, the rules vaguely allow new engines to be homologated. Mahle build their road car lumps, so I guess that's who they would contract it out to.

There is a new engine format coming in 2013, if McLaren make their own it won't make its bow till then. There is no point developing an engine which has a shelf life of 1 season (2012) as they are still tied to Merc for the next 24months.