Ferrari F10

[Scotracer]

FERRARI CHEATING AGAIN!

http://en.espnf1.com/ferrari/motorsport/story/6918.html

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80980

Hmmm, I wonder if they will be working on fuel milage in that F2008 that Rossi will be driving... SINCE IT HAS THE SAME TYPE 056 ENGINE IN IT AS IN THE 2010 CAR.

All this extra engine test time is clearly outside the spirit of the rules.

...........................................

Dude, the F2007 has the Type 056 as does the 248 F1.

I can only hope you're being satirical.

[ISLAMATRON]

So you think they will be running a 2008 spec engine(thats been sitting around for 2 years) or the newest latest type 056 with the fuel effiency improvements that they are so desperately needing?

You think they will gain absolutely nothing with this test?

[Scotracer]

So you think they will be running a 2008 spec engine(thats been sitting around for 2 years) or the newest latest type 056 with the fuel effiency improvements that they are so desperately needing?

You think they will gain absolutely nothing with this test?

Given that any changes made to the engine would have to go through homologation before they could be used in the F281 I can't see it being any use, particularly when they'll be able to run their shiny new car next week.

Maybe I'm not as cynical as you (or as biased) but I just don't see it.

[ISLAMATRON]

There are no changes allowed to the (internals of the)engine since they were re-homologated at the start of 2009, the only changes they can make are from tuning(engine maps and fuel curves), and intake and exhaust manifolds, things that I'm sure they are testing as much as they can(especially on the F2008), which is clearly more than the other teams.

It is not a matter of cynical or bias(which you may have more than me) they are running an engine which is internally the same as their 2010 engine more than any other teams get to because of these extra tests that they do for Massa & Rossi and anyone else who wants a ride.

It is clearly outside the spitit of the rules, which was the very same arguement Ferrari was making against the DDD.

[ISLAMATRON]

FERRARI CONTINUES THE CHEATING... AGAIN!!!!

More testing time for the type 056 engine outside the F1 testing ban...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80999

how convienient to add another day when Rossi's first day saw some rain.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80996

[donskar]

FERRARI CONTINUES THE CHEATING... AGAIN!!!!

More testing time for the type 056 engine outside the F1 testing ban...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80999

Thanks for the link, which includes this:

"the car, which is running on GP2 tyres to comply with the Formula 1 testing ban,"

Thanks again. It's a slow day at work and even the level of humor your posts provide is welcomed.

[megz]

Or... you know, they could ah... put ... put the ol' 056 on the ah... on the ol' dyno ya know... on one of them fancy testing rig thingys. Ya know for like 24 hours a day if it really tickled their collective pickles. That would get MORE mileage, MORE tweakability and would be MORE legal. Seriously, find something better to do with your time and health than blowing blood vessels whenever you see red. Also see your own quote in my sig, you're not adding anything of substance to the topic at hand etc etc.

[ISLAMATRON]

I didnt know that tires mattered to help test the engine... please explain?

It is amazing how the red tint blinds all the tifosi to any Ferrari cheating.

[ISLAMATRON]

Or... you know, they could ah... put ... put the ol' 056 on the ah... on the ol' dyno ya know... on one of them fancy testing rig thingys. Ya know for like 24 hours a day if it really tickled their collective pickles. That would get MORE mileage, MORE tweakability and would be MORE legal. Seriously, find something better to do with your time and health than blowing blood vessels whenever you see red. Also see your own quote in my sig, you're not adding anything of substance to the topic at hand etc etc.

Yes because any smart team would only run an engine on the dyno before heading into the the abreviated testing season of only 15 days... Dyno's are so great on testing cooling requirements... Have you even seen an engine dyno? Do you know what they are capable of? Do they test for vibrations while in the car? Do they tell you what is going on with the engine during longitudinal g-forces? or any G-forces? How about how the airbox works in yaw? Or how the engine reacts to heatsoak?

Engine Dyno's are very limited in what information they can give you... and especially limited in information regarding how the engine reacts while it is in the car, in a confined space with limited cooling, under all types of g loading.

In your estimation can anyone jump into an F1 simulator and with enough time become a top level F1 driver regardless of previous experience or physical condition? An engine dyno is nothing more than a simulator, no more closer to the real thing than a driving simulator.

[donskar]

Or... you know, they could ah... put ... put the ol' 056 on the ah... on the ol' dyno ya know... on one of them fancy testing rig thingys. Ya know for like 24 hours a day if it really tickled their collective pickles. That would get MORE mileage, MORE tweakability and would be MORE legal. Seriously, find something better to do with your time and health than blowing blood vessels whenever you see red. Also see your own quote in my sig, you're not adding anything of substance to the topic at hand etc etc.

Dyno? Oh no! How I wish you hadn't mentioned that. You know:
Dyno --> Dino --> Too obvious: Ferrari cheats again!

[The FOZ]

Everyone else (except the new teams) could do the same. Nothing stops them from having a corsa clienti department of their own.

The advantage Ferrari, McL, and Renault have is that they are engine constructors - they have kept the same engine design for 3 years now. they would actually be able to gain knowledge from these tests, in theory, at least. The disadvantage is that running and engine department is exorbitantly expensive.

Everyone else - engine customers - who haven't managed to keep with the same engine manufacturer for 3 years - don't have the benefit of running a 2-year old car with the same engine. Their advantage, however, is not having to fund an engine department!

It's not like Red Bull and Renault don't do "demos" of their own every month. What's to stop them from sliding one of the current batch of engines into the demo car? Nothing.

You'll notice that none of the teams are making a stink about Ferrari...maybe it's because everyone who can do it, does, and everyone who can't do it has gotten over it long ago?

[ISLAMATRON]

Everyone else (except the new teams) could do the same. Nothing stops them from having a corsa clienti department of their own.

Very true FOZ, but the fact remains that a testing ban was imposed to cut costs, and this is clearly against that testing ban, and against the very spirit of the rule, something that Ferrari based their FIA COURT ACTION on in regards to the DDD. So therefore it is not only cheating but also hypocrasy by the red team. There is a test ban on until Feb 1, that is not only for the chassis but also for the engines, Ferrari is clearly breaching those rules with its constant testing of old machinery with new engines.

[The FOZ]

Very true FOZ, but the fact remains that a testing ban was imposed to cut costs, and this is clearly against that testing ban, and against the very spirit of the rule, something that Ferrari based their FIA COURT ACTION on in regards to the DDD. So therefore it is not only cheating but also hypocrasy by the red team. There is a test ban on until Feb 1, that is not only for the chassis but also for the engines, Ferrari is clearly breaching those rules with its constant testing of old machinery with new engines.

Nobody can be naive enough to believe they ACTUALLY protested it because of the "spirit of the rules" bit. They were caught in the lurch when the DDDs were allowed to race. There was a fork in the road, they chose the wrong fork. They were screwed.

So they did what anyone in their position would do - they lawyered up and came up with the best possible argument the could against the DDDs - they had nothing to lose at the point, and everything to gain.

Is it really hypocrisy if they don't actually believe what they're saying?

In fairness, you probably should be calling foul on Red Bull - Buemi was driving a Red Bull demonstrator in Montreal a week or so ago...and I'm sure Renault has been running their roadshow lately...it's not like Ferrari are the only ones finding every possible reason to run their cars.

I'd like to know how much it cost to ship Buemi to Montreal to drive on ice a week or so ago? Helluva lot more than it would have cost to go to a European track.

Make a rule and money and time will be spent to circumvent it.

[allan]

The car is being run by Ferrari's Clienti department, meaning anyone who can afford it and can have a run in the F2008... Massa, Schumacher, or even Bernie Ecclestone.

And about those tires... Lower grip tires create less grip and less friction, which means less force needed to accelerate the car, and less fuel consumption by the engine. Not to mention the totally different aerodynamics configuration the F2008 has compared to the 2009 and 2010 cars.

Now the only reason Ferrari would test their engines is to improve fuel consumption, which can't be measured using those tires nor that aerodynamic package.

[ISLAMATRON]

Nobody can be naive enough to believe they ACTUALLY protested it because of the "spirit of the rules" bit. They were caught in the lurch when the DDDs were allowed to race. There was a fork in the road, they chose the wrong fork. They were screwed.

So they did what anyone in their position would do - they lawyered up and came up with the best possible argument the could against the DDDs - they had nothing to lose at the point, and everything to gain.

Is it really hypocrisy if they don't actually believe what they're saying?

In fairness, you probably should be calling foul on Red Bull - Buemi was driving a Red Bull demonstrator in Montreal a week or so ago...and I'm sure Renault has been running their roadshow lately...it's not like Ferrari are the only ones finding every possible reason to run their cars.

I'd like to know how much it cost to ship Buemi to Montreal to drive on ice a week or so ago? Helluva lot more than it would have cost to go to a European track.

Make a rule and money and time will be spent to circumvent it.

Some good points, but you really cant compare a demostration on ice to a test at Barcelona, now that would be naive. The Renault roadshow is a better comparison, but they are usually doing burnouts and donuts.