Airbox ionizer

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Re: Airbox ionizer

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Makes no sense to me. Can't imagine how this would add any engine power.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Airbox ionizer

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http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090049839

BTW, been googling, it's an old idea. Such things follow me like a curse. I come up with something, and than I find it already existing on the web! Been trough impossible triangle (Penrose triangle) design, even decided to protect design before finding it on wiki few weeks later. #-o

Giblet
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Re: Airbox ionizer

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Fil wrote:
Giblet wrote:I friend used to grow some vegetables hyrdoponically indoors...
they weren't 'tomatoes' by any chance were they..? :-$ :lol:
I knew someone would call me out on that. Yes they were 'tomatoes' :)

In British Columbia, it's hard to get away from the cash crop. Almost as big an export as softwood.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Airbox ionizer

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he he, just google "British Columbia cash crop" and it all begins to fall together.

I love BC, lived there for two years, wouldn't mind retiring there.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

autogyro
autogyro
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Re: Airbox ionizer

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DaveKillens wrote:he he, just google "British Columbia cash crop" and it all begins to fall together.

I love BC, lived there for two years, wouldn't mind retiring there.
Oh those calm DeLorean days, where are you now Chunky.

xpensive
xpensive
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
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Re: Airbox ionizer

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manchild wrote:http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090049839

BTW, been googling, it's an old idea. Such things follow me like a curse. I come up with something, and than I find it already existing on the web! Been trough impossible triangle (Penrose triangle) design, even decided to protect design before finding it on wiki few weeks later. #-o
Get the load of this, man; I am on my way with the dream of a molecular filter for a combustion engine, letting though the smaller oxygene (O2) molecules, while bypassing the larger nitrogen (N2) kind! I've kept it in my noodle for years and years, but it's finally taking shape now!

This device should increase the fuel-burning capacity of my Saab 2.3 IC- engine with at least 200%, without turbo.

Think about it!
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

Edis
Edis
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 16:58

Re: Airbox ionizer

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xpensive wrote:
manchild wrote:http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090049839

BTW, been googling, it's an old idea. Such things follow me like a curse. I come up with something, and than I find it already existing on the web! Been trough impossible triangle (Penrose triangle) design, even decided to protect design before finding it on wiki few weeks later. #-o
Get the load of this, man; I am on my way with the dream of a molecular filter for a combustion engine, letting though the smaller oxygene (O2) molecules, while bypassing the larger nitrogen (N2) kind! I've kept it in my noodle for years and years, but it's finally taking shape now!

This device should increase the fuel-burning capacity of my Saab 2.3 IC- engine with at least 200%, without turbo.

Think about it!
While that sort of filters exist, well, sort of (used in for instance fuel tank inerting systems), it would be practically impossible to get the flow required by a combustion engine.

It would also be very dangerous, the engine would probably blow and there's a big risk for fire in the intake manifold. Pure oxygen react violently with everything that can be burned.

Internal combustion engines which use pure oxygen as an oxidant, there have been diesel submarines with such engines, typically mix the oxygen with cooled EGR to get the oxygen content back to a reasonable level.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Airbox ionizer

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Well, we had a thread (The Air Wing) where fastback33 asked if somehow you could "build" a wing made of... air.

So, we (or better yet, I) discussed if ionized air could be used somehow to improve the flow over the nose or the rear wing, like this (long note: for this I remembered your idea, Manchild, of using NACA intake ducts on the vertical panels of the rear wing to improve the flow over the rear wing, idea that somehow was copied by some teams a couple of years later, altough not exactly in the way you devised it, but, hey... your idea about the "split" nose was copied by Ferrari two months after it was posted, wasn't it? They had a bad year, but it wasn't your fault... :D):

Ionized nose cone: a grid ionizes air, a "shaping" magnet compresses it, a "reaction" magnet takes part of the force
Image

Again, a grid and a magnet to compress air under the second element of the rear wing: watching this image again, I would put the grid on both surfaces, at the "duct" between both wings
Image

The Shkval torpedo was introduced to the forum, in hopes of inspiring somebody to create this kind of "low drag" layer through the use of ionizing devices:

Shkval: uses a layer of air to reach over 300 kph under water (yes, it exists: it was revealed after Cold War ended)
Image

Shkval nose: a rocket pushes the torpedo, and blows some exhaust gas through this nose.
Image

syguy noted that there are Ionocrafts, vessels that use an ionized air current to fly. He also noted that sparks and fuel doesn't mix very well (except in a cylinder).

tomislavp4 got this idea:

Image

Carlos contributed with this link: http://arc.uta.edu/research/mhd.htm (Electromagnetic boundary layer flow control).

So, I gues it can be made.

About the ozone idea, excellent. Ozone has an oxidation potential that's larger than the one of O2, only slightly inferior to the potential of single O atoms.

However, the potential of hidroxyl radicals is larger: you get those by dissolving ozone in water. Check this table:
Substance 	Potential (V) 
Fluorine (F) 		2,87 
Hydroxyradical (OH) 	2,86 
Oxygen atom (O) 	2,42 
Ozone molecule (O3) 	2,07 
Hydrogen peroxide (H2O2)1,78 
Chlorine (Cl) 		1,36 
Chlorine dioxide (ClO2) 1,27 
Oxygen molecule (O2) 	1,23
The Advanced Oxidation Process (AOP) is a type of oxidation, that has been researched for the last couple of years. Harmful substances are decomposed to less harmful substances, or even completely mineralized in media such as water, carbon dioxide and nitrogen. Oxidation works by using OH-radicals. You can read about it in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Oxidation_Process

About xpensive's idea, yes, there are filters to concentrate oxygen: they are used as an alternative to oxygen bottles for some patients. Here: http://www.cpapfiltersandsupplies.com/f ... trator.htm

DeVilbiss, Nelicor and Airsep are some of the makers. There you have another excellent idea waiting for somebody to test it on a real car.
Ciro

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raceman
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Joined: 25 Jul 2009, 08:57
Location: Pune, India

Re: Airbox ionizer

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Ciro Pabón wrote:The Shkval torpedo was introduced to the forum, in hopes of inspiring somebody to create this kind of "low drag" layer through the use of ionizing devices:

Shkval: uses a layer of air to reach over 300 kph under water (yes, it exists: it was revealed after Cold War ended)
Image

Shkval nose: a rocket pushes the torpedo, and blows some exhaust gas through this nose.
Image
Dear Ciro --

Thanks for the interesting info about Shkval torpedo. It was interesting to know more about it on Wiki and I was amazed by the technology innovation - got something new to know/learn today.

thnx much

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Airbox ionizer

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Ciro Pabón wrote:... your idea about the "split" nose was copied by Ferrari two months after it was posted, wasn't it? They had a bad year, but it wasn't your fault... :D)
7 months, and they've won WCC 8)

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Airbox ionizer

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Oh, well, Manchild, we won't hold that against you... (was Schumi the winner? :D).

Thanks for your kind words, raceman.

For xpensive: Build a better airbox for your car in a weekend (oxygen filters not included)
Ciro