Mercedes GP MGP W01

[raymondu999]

their current diffuser is quite monster (in size) as it is. We'll see how monster they get

[mx_tifoso]

Renault is bringing a lot of developments in Bahrein. A diffuser that is said to be even more extreme than the present one, is in the list.

Source please?

[mith]

Renault is bringing a lot of developments in Bahrein. A diffuser that is said to be even more extreme than the present one, is in the list.

Source please?

Stephane Samson from Radio Monte Carlo, so it might be only gossip.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Even with a Diffuser developed by Zeus himself, Renault would still be behind.
They did not have any pace at all on the long runs and were pretty woeful on the short stints too.
Of course I wasnt there, so I cannot say how much fuel was on board. But Sauber and Force India are looking stronger bets.

Mercedes have something, Ross Brawn saying what he said regards Charlie Whiting is a little window of what they have. It pushes the envelope and thats exactly what I expect of Ross and Mercedes =D>

[BreezyRacer]

Even with a Diffuser developed by Zeus himself, Renault would still be behind.
They did not have any pace at all on the long runs and were pretty woeful on the short stints too.
Of course I wasnt there, so I cannot say how much fuel was on board. But Sauber and Force India are looking stronger bets.

Mercedes have something, Ross Brawn saying what he said regards Charlie Whiting is a little window of what they have. It pushes the envelope and thats exactly what I expect of Ross and Mercedes =D>

I'm a little surprised that Ross has decided to run the mods past the FIA. He didn't do that last year and learned that it worked pretty well ..

[Raptor22]

Even with a Diffuser developed by Zeus himself, Renault would still be behind.
They did not have any pace at all on the long runs and were pretty woeful on the short stints too.
Of course I wasnt there, so I cannot say how much fuel was on board. But Sauber and Force India are looking stronger bets.

Mercedes have something, Ross Brawn saying what he said regards Charlie Whiting is a little window of what they have. It pushes the envelope and thats exactly what I expect of Ross and Mercedes =D>

I'm a little surprised that Ross has decided to run the mods past the FIA. He didn't do that last year and learned that it worked pretty well ..

He didn't bother to run it past the FIA because he sat on the Overtaking Working Group committee and he raised the point that the rules were not clear and that there was an opportunity to exploit it. He was mouthed down by Ferrari who got caught with their pants down and guess who shouted the loudest about the illegaility of double diffusor's....?

This time they may be pushing beyond what could be considered a singular interpretation of the rules and therefore they would need a written piece of paper thats says, "we checked and Charlie said it's ok.."

[Ganxxta]

I'm a little surprised that Ross has decided to run the mods past the FIA. He didn't do that last year and learned that it worked pretty well ..

Of course he did it last year, I read somewhere that Brawn,Williams and Toyota had shown their ideas before the Season, I think RedBull(?!) had a slightly different idea and they got a "no go" from the FIA...

[BorisTheBlade]

I'm a little surprised that Ross has decided to run the mods past the FIA. He didn't do that last year and learned that it worked pretty well ..

Of course he did it last year, I read somewhere that Brawn,Williams and Toyota had shown their ideas before the Season, I think RedBull(?!) had a slightly different idea and they got a "no go" from the FIA...

That's what I remember too.

[Blackout]

Even with a Diffuser developed by Zeus himself, Renault would still be behind.
They did not have any pace at all on the long runs and were pretty woeful on the short stints too.
Of course I wasnt there, so I cannot say how much fuel was on board. But Sauber and Force India are looking stronger bets.

Completely false !

In his race practice yesterday, Kubica was faster than Schumacher in the two first stints for example.
In Jerez, kubica set the second best time of the year in a single 6 laps run while Button did many very short runs to beat that chrono.
I even say that the Renault was always faster than the Mercedes, FI, and Williams in last tests.
Kubica did not a single quali simulation yesterday and the Renault only received a new front wing.
The R30 is waiting for heavy and interesting improvements for Bahrein... Kubica said that.

[spinmastermic]

Even with a Diffuser developed by Zeus himself, Renault would still be behind.
They did not have any pace at all on the long runs and were pretty woeful on the short stints too.
Of course I wasnt there, so I cannot say how much fuel was on board. But Sauber and Force India are looking stronger bets.

Mercedes have something, Ross Brawn saying what he said regards Charlie Whiting is a little window of what they have. It pushes the envelope and thats exactly what I expect of Ross and Mercedes =D>

I'm a little surprised that Ross has decided to run the mods past the FIA. He didn't do that last year and learned that it worked pretty well ..

He didn't bother to run it past the FIA because he sat on the Overtaking Working Group committee and he raised the point that the rules were not clear and that there was an opportunity to exploit it. He was mouthed down by Ferrari who got caught with their pants down and guess who shouted the loudest about the illegaility of double diffusor's....?

This time they may be pushing beyond what could be considered a singular interpretation of the rules and therefore they would need a written piece of paper thats says, "we checked and Charlie said it's ok.."

It was BMW that said no to the rule change, not Ferrari.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The story goes that Ross asked for clarification in july 2008.
Mario Theissen(BMW) refused and vetoed an ammendment as they had started development.

4 teams came with the double diffuser to the FIA. Renault Brawn Toyota and Williams.
While the latter 3 teams asked about the concept of the double diffuser ie. legality, Renault went and showed them(FIA) the whole darn diffuser! The actual specific design of the diffusor was banned not the actual concept.

So 3 teams got the ok and Renault got the hump!

As for Ferrari, if they dont have a performance enhancing item or get outdeveloped, all hell breaks loose! They moan blue buggery until somthing is done or a concession is given. I want to wait and see what Max Mosley has on Ferrari that has LdM running scared!

[F1_eng]

And Ferrari and Renault.

I really enjoy pre-season speculation, by both fans and "journalists".
There is so much rubbish being thrown around by people, simply because they know a tiny bit more than someone else.


In particular I enjoy journalists trying to write technical reasons behind car concepts, which is always absolute garbage. Things like "bla bla.... channeling air along the nose, sealing off the nose with vortices."

If you use the word vortex, most people will believe what is said.

Let me pose you guys a question:

Why do you want to guide a vortex towards a particular region of the car? For example the side-pods or rad ducts as I think someone here mentioned.

And don't just mention the usual reasoning which is to seal the sides of the floor.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Blackout

I dont mean to sound condescending, But the Renault is dog slow according to Kubica.
He is already talking of this being a "long season".

The long runs in comparison with the top 4 is roughly 1.1 seconds a lap slower than the best. 0.7 from the lowest of the top 4. There are various figures from different sites but i will get to my point.

The upgrades are due yes, but can I ask you this......
What sort of investment will a venture capital firm invest in development of an F1 car?

[Blackout]

Blackout

But the Renault is dog slow according to Kubica.

He is already talking of this being a "long season".

We don't talk about the same Kubica I think
That's not really what he said. That's your own interpretation.
Of course he will not challenge for the the victory in Bahrein, but he says that Renault is not far at all from the big three or big four... and he says that the future upgrades are very promising...

The long runs in comparison with the top 4 is roughly 1.1 seconds a lap slower than the best.

in Valencia maybe
Yesterday he was a second faster than Schumacher, Sutil or barichello in one of the race stints...
(but of course we don't now what kind of tires they used...)

0.7 from the lowest of the top 4. There are various figures from different sites but i will get to my point.

James Allen said that ? I don't know how can he measure that...

The upgrades are due yes, but can I ask you this......
What sort of investment will a venture capital firm invest in development of an F1 car?

Don't understand that question; my English is not so good...
In 2010, Renault is still Renault, not yet 'Genii'...

[BreezyRacer]

And Ferrari and Renault.

I really enjoy pre-season speculation, by both fans and "journalists".
There is so much rubbish being thrown around by people, simply because they know a tiny bit more than someone else.


In particular I enjoy journalists trying to write technical reasons behind car concepts, which is always absolute garbage. Things like "bla bla.... channeling air along the nose, sealing off the nose with vortices."

If you use the word vortex, most people will believe what is said.

Let me pose you guys a question:

Why do you want to guide a vortex towards a particular region of the car? For example the side-pods or rad ducts as I think someone here mentioned.

And don't just mention the usual reasoning which is to seal the sides of the floor.

A vortex is a spining charge of airflow. A vortex is generally pointed at a surface to reduce drag, even though it creates some drag itself. A vortex is also used to make airflow conform to a surface change. Rule of thumb is that airflow can accept about 7 to 10 degrees of angular change in the flow over a surface without separating. With a good vortex that angle can be almost doubled. Lastly a vortex can also act to increase airflow directional stability.