Mercedes GP MGP W01

[kalinka]

I'm sorry to say here, but I was following the '94 season, and for me, MSC is not the '94 champ. I can't accept it. If the same rules applied to '94 incident as it happened later in '97 (Villeneuve vs. Schumacher accident), they should exclude him later from the championship as it happened in '97 . It was that incident indeed in '94 in Adelaide, that warned FIA to act differently in these situations.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think Rosberg can manage him. It will be close. These new drivers are a whole different breed of driver. Even right now Ross Brawn is saying that Nico and Shoemaker are even.

[kalinka]

I think Rosberg can manage him. It will be close. These new drivers are a whole different breed of driver. Even right now Ross Brawn is saying that Nico and Shoemaker are even.

He is not allowed to say anything else , but in this case maybe it is indeed true.

[WhiteBlue]

Even with a Diffuser developed by Zeus himself, Renault would still be behind.
They did not have any pace at all on the long runs and were pretty woeful on the short stints too.
Of course I wasnt there, so I cannot say how much fuel was on board. But Sauber and Force India are looking stronger bets.

Completely false !

In his race practice yesterday, Kubica was faster than Schumacher in the two first stints for example.
In Jerez, kubica set the second best time of the year in a single 6 laps run while Button did many very short runs to beat that chrono.
I even say that the Renault was always faster than the Mercedes, FI, and Williams in last tests.
Kubica did not a single quali simulation yesterday and the Renault only received a new front wing.

The facts speak a different language. Short stint qualifying practise in the morning saw Kubica completely off the pace compared to Massa and Schumi. In the afternoon he failed to string laps for a long run together which means he should have been lighter than those on race simulations. Nevertheless he also did not match the pace that Massa and Schumi did in the afternoon.

[Blackout]

pffff

Q. How much low fuel running have you done?

RK: Apart from at Valencia running low on fuel to see how it works with the sensors, up to now we haven't done any.

And Kubica never did quali simulations in Barcelona.
He set the second time of the year in Jerez in a single six lap run...
Button did many 2-3 lap runs to beat that time.

I don't say the R30 is a rocket. But saying that it's far behind Mercedes is completely stupid.
In the long runs (ok Kubicam may be, wasn't faster than Schumi, I had wrong time-sheets), but that R30 is not bad at all in very long stints. And Kubica is very satisfied with the balance and with the car generally...

[marcush.]

Alan

Perhaps not perfect, but very good indeed. Personally, Senna was my "perfect" driver.
I also think if Schumacher was asked the question of who would win out the 2, He would have the good grace to cede to Ayrton Senna. I think he reveres the Brazilian that much.

I know this is speculative, but what if that fateful day in Imola didnt happen?
1994 1995 1996 and possibly 1997 could possibly have yielded the name Senna.
Schumacher won in 94 and 95 with an inferior car but also to an inferior driver.
Hill and then later Villenuve were not even close to Senna.

Sadly we will never know, but I think this "IF" is certainly not lost on Micheal.

The way i remember it Schumie spanked Senna that entire season before Senna's demise. Not to say they aren't both great drivers .. it's just that we did see that duel .. just not for long enough. Let's make this the last word on this for this thread though.

I rate Schumacher as the all time best really ,but Senna was on a different planet.
A small but fascinating detail :If I remember correctly ,Schumacher never could grab a pole position before Senna died.But now he has the top count of poles .

[mith]

At the morning of final day in Barcelona Renault has gearbox failure. So after sorting the issue they concentrated on testing new front wing and later on the race simulation which was interrupted halfway through.

What I don't know is the source of that interruption. Was it red flag or another failure of their car?

I'm not saying Renault is blazing fast. I'm realist. And that's why I also can't believe they simulated quali and had pretty much the same times as on their race simulation and comparable only to best times of Lotus and Virgin (which were probably set also during quali simulation).


BTW. Did you know that Senna over his 161 races took pole 65 times and was a race winner 41 times, second 23 times and third 17 times. That sums up to 80 podiums. So basically in half of his races he was on podium. He didn't finish 50 times though

For me he was and will be the best for long. And about Schumacher... I don't want to start a flame war. But I still remember his crash with Hill in 94, even though I was small boy on that time. From that very moment I can see him only as a cheater. Skilled, fast as hell, but still cheater.

[ArchAngel]

Uhm, straying back into MGP-W01 technical stuff for a moment, any new insights on the top-secret Merc über-diffuser?

Aside from the usual reasons that've already been postulated, I think the Merc's aero updates for Bahrain skirt the very, very fringes of what's considered as acceptable interpretation of the relevant aero tech regs. By delaying its unveiling, they also delay the ability of the opposition to challenge its legality, thereby allowing them to reap its advantages for a race or two (or more) before any final (but hopefully non-retroactive) ruling can be made.

Brawn is probably less confident about it than last year, and could be worried that a casual word of approval from Charlie Whiting might not be enough against a more rigorous legal challenge from the other established teams.

[ringo]

I think Brawn is blowing smoke. After all he no longer has the luxuries aforded to him from last years situation. He is working the same honda team that made dogs before the 2009 car. I am not very confident i their ability to develope a car like Ferrari and Mclaren.

Something tells me they will roll out the mid season package for the first race because of how far behind the car is from the leaders; with pressure from Mercedes and Shumacher to have a winning car.

Spending hundreds of man hours to design a certain bodywork and only using it for testing to fool and stall competitors sounds kind of fishy to me.
I think these upgrades may well be the mid season update if the car looks completely different than what they were running in the tests.
About the diffuser, i don't know if its physically possible to make it any bigger than Mclaren's. Mac diffuser is literally on the dimensional borderlines of the regulations.

You never know though, we could even see a front diffuser.

[WhiteBlue]

I rate Schumacher as the all time best really ,but Senna was on a different planet.
A small but fascinating detail :If I remember correctly ,Schumacher never could grab a pole position before Senna died.But now he has the top count of poles .

Sure, Senna was the best qualifier in F1 historie. To put it into perspective one has to remember that he had low fuel quali only. Most of Schumachers time they did race fuel qualifying which invited drivers to compromise qualifying for optimum race speed and set up. Had F1 continued with pure low fuel quali the statistics would look better for Schumacher than they are. Not really important but I just don't like race fuel quali. It takes away from the experience of pure qualifying. Bad for the show. Same goes for the blimming tyre rule they have made now. Absolutely stupid.

[WhiteBlue]

I think the Merc's aero updates for Bahrain skirt the very, very fringes of what's considered as acceptable interpretation of the relevant aero tech regs. By delaying its unveiling, they also delay the ability of the opposition to challenge its legality, thereby allowing them to reap its advantages for a race or two (or more) before any final (but hopefully non-retroactive) ruling can be made.

Quite a theory. Ross has said that the diffuser interpretation this year is very clear and it is unlikely that there will be any bans. I believe that is correct. The rumbling around the McLaren diffusor from Ferrari was without any consequences. Brawn will probably bring something very similar to the McLaren solution. Why should that be banned?

[raceman]

Ross Brawn is renowned for his no-nonsense approach, so it’s no surprise that the Mercedes GP team principal is keen to avoid speculation about the MGP W01’s competitiveness ahead of this month’s season-opener in Bahrain.

Beautiful cover letter about Ross Brawn on F1's official site.

[marcush.]

Ross Brawn is renowned for his no-nonsense approach, so it’s no surprise that the Mercedes GP team principal is keen to avoid speculation about the MGP W01’s competitiveness ahead of this month’s season-opener in Bahrain.

Beautiful cover letter about Ross Brawn on F1's official site.

to me this is really revealing .
They have not yet found a solution to find a setup that is consistant over the whole race ,but I´d believe to think that is the same big problem for everyone ,with the option and prime tyre plus a big change in vehicle weight, cg height staic rideheight(possibly)over the race and the necessary compromise for qualy.

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

I think Brawn is blowing smoke. After all he no longer has the luxuries aforded to him from last years situation. He is working the same honda team that made dogs before the 2009 car. I am not very confident i their ability to develope a car like Ferrari and Mclaren.

Spending hundreds of man hours to design a certain bodywork and only using it for testing to fool and stall competitors sounds kind of fishy to me.

About the diffuser, i don't know if its physically possible to make it any bigger than Mclaren's. Mac diffuser is literally on the dimensional borderlines of the regulations.

Well first off, Brawn has already said his team do not need to test parts out on the circuit. With the testing ban and limited track time this makes perfect sense.
Also I think other posters have touched on the fact that Brawn do not bneed to show anything until Bahrain.
Also when was "hundreds of man hours" spent to design useless components?
As far as Im aware Mercedes used last years front wing and diffuser.
The rest is all on test.

You also mention wether its physically possible to make a larger diffuser. Well of course it is, If you compare the Mercedes and McLaren back end you will see how tapered and compact the Merc is compared to the McLaren. The suspension has also been swept backwards for 2 reasons, aero and also the ability to install a much larger diffuser.
When you see the aerial view of the MGP001 you will see what i mean. Furthermore, why would you go through the trauma of sweeping back your suspension and tapering the rear if you were only going to use the 09 diffuser?
Not very Brawn like is it?

[marcush.]

bigger second deck difusser ?
In´t the size of the difusser more restricted by the size of the holes in the step and the flow conditions trough these windows or slots? if you are able to open up a big slot there and finnd possibilities not only to suck alot of air through the slots but also to condtion the flow so it likes to flow there as well,this could help a lot ..

i understand that you are not allowed to have a strake in the outer floor section but you could move the slot forward by not using the full witdh of the bottom area for the chassis creating a channel besides the fueltank and engine perhaps to grab some air earlier ? would this be an advantage ?