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Could I supply compressed air to engine for short time boosting, little bit like N2O?
Oxygen rating in air is around 25%, for N2O, it is 2/3 (2N+1O), nearly 25%, what's the different between them if I supply the same mass and pressure of Compressed air or N2O to engine?
Feeding the engine compressed air is called supercharging. In theory, there is no problem storing compressed air in a tank and when needed feed it to the engine, but the volume of air needed is so large it becomes impractical.
A 2 litre engine @ 6000rpm and 100% VE swallows 100 litres of air every second.
Pure oxygen has the habit of making things like oil self ignite. A bit too reactive to use in most engines...
Air has 21% oxygen, N2O has somewhere around 30%. Thats about a 50% increase in oxygen for a given amount of air/gas.
N2O is kept in liquid state in the bottle, and when let out it boils at something like -50 degrees. That cools the engines intake air, giving a bit more power.
The rules state only naturally aspirated engines are allowed. That makes it pretty cut and dry.
I think he is referring to a car in general rather than formula one since this is off topic.
Also, Extra air means extra fuel which means more fuel burning. The engine must be able to withstand the higher temperatures and also the Shock load due the sudden addition of compressed air and the sudden extra power could cause things to wear and break.
This sounds like a nitrous application. Injecting nitrous oxide into an engine intake introduces more oxygen into the combustion chamber. Naturally, more fuel has to be admitted to retain an appropriate fuel-air mixture.
Remember, the basic key to more power is to have as more fuel and oxygen burn inside the combustion chamber. In the most extreme case as performed by top fuel dragsters, the air is compressed, and the fuel is injected into the combustion chamber. There is so much fuel and air it's practically more liquid than gas, and to ignite this mixture you need the equivalent of a lightning storm inside the combustion chamber. The power that results is nothing short of amazing. From a 500 cubic inch (8194 cc) engine the estimated output is 7000 to 8500 horsepower (approximately 4500-6000 kilowatts), with a torque output of 8135 N·m (ca. 6000 lbf·ft). These engines have a lifetime of about six seconds.
I suggest you investigate nitrous systems, they seem to be what you want. But three warnings. First, nitrous if not done correctly can destroy any engine in a blink of the eye. Second, nitrous is not green, it's a greenhous gas. Third, in some places it's illegal. For instance, here in Ontario, Canada, if you're found with a nitrous sytem in your car, you are considered a street racer, and criminal charges will be brought against you. Maybe a fine, jail time, and / or loss of vehicle.
Last edited by DaveKillens on 05 Mar 2010, 00:53, edited 1 time in total.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.
Christ, wikipedia on the subject of anything to do with Ford is P.R. bullshit and every time I type in cheat and anything to do with rally or motorsport I get reams of Playstation cheat codes, but.... I distinctly remember that Ford (and i'm pretty sure it was on the Focus) HID a sizable compressed air tank in the rear bumper/fender of their WRC cars. I think they had a very laggy turbo or just a wheezy engine in general or something aong those lines and would bleed off excess pressure under engine braking to be fed back in later. They did quite clever stuff with the structure so that the bodywork essentaily made up the tank but then the bumper fell off on an event and they were busted.
If anyone can find a link to this story I'd be most gratefull, If nothing else to prove I didn't just imagine all of this. I tried and all I got was the better known Toyota turbo restrictor scandal.
I actually did some low level research work dealing with this as an undergrad. You can use compressed air to provide a boost to an engine. Not sure about the use of pure oxygen, however. You might find these links interesting:
There are other papers published by these authors. These are just the ones that are available in PDF for free. A Google scholar search of their names will bring up the rest.
safeaschuck wrote:Christ, wikipedia on the subject of anything to do with Ford is P.R. bullshit and every time I type in cheat and anything to do with rally or motorsport I get reams of Playstation cheat codes, but.... I distinctly remember that Ford (and i'm pretty sure it was on the Focus) HID a sizable compressed air tank in the rear bumper/fender of their WRC cars. I think they had a very laggy turbo or just a wheezy engine in general or something aong those lines and would bleed off excess pressure under engine braking to be fed back in later. They did quite clever stuff with the structure so that the bodywork essentaily made up the tank but then the bumper fell off on an event and they were busted.
If anyone can find a link to this story I'd be most gratefull, If nothing else to prove I didn't just imagine all of this. I tried and all I got was the better known Toyota turbo restrictor scandal.
Correct. The system was developed by a company I was working for at the time. It was not developed because the Ford WRC had a laggy turbo, or a wheezy engine, it was developed as an type of anti-lag. It was only used on 3 rally events, but because of the terrain, like Cyprus, it produced a blast of power out of a corner, and thus lose traction. On a tarmac event, Petter Solberg had an arm injury. It was sold to the FIA as an eco friendly system, more than anti-lag, and therefore if they found they wanted to continue to use it, it would have to become public knowledge. My company felt that Ford would not put enough money behind it, and Prodrive, Ralliart would, therfore giving them the advantage, so it was shelved. You are correct in saying the tank was the rear bumper. It bled of excess boost and stored it in the tank, to be released on exiting a corner. The guy behind the idea now works for Red Bull F1 as far as I know, and a very smart chap indeed.
autogyro wrote:Hmm very interesting, does this guy do any work on suspension I wonder?
I don't think so, but he is a very all round type of guy. I could never work out why he went there, as they don't do there own engines, which is his forte. He went on to be temporary Technical Director, and then to head of Advanced Technology's.
