New Indycar for 2012

[countersteer]

Thanks for the response, Rev. Sometimes you have to tell me twice... Now I see what you're talking about...

I'm still thinking through your idea of bringing back the Lola's, Swifts, Reynards (who owns that now?), etc.

But the motor idea is simply brilliant. =D> Honda would love to bring back a turbo powerplant AND have some competition. Cosworth would love to sell more engines too. (May have been on this thread where I read there was a warehouse full somewhere.) Who would step up to badge the Cosworth? Ford? Fiat/Chysler? (wouldn't hurt and might give them a bit of credibility which they sorely will need over the next 2 or 3 years.) I would guarantee Honda and Cosworth some sort of performance balance the first year and then back down the restrictions. If Honda and whoever badges Cosworth would sponsor the series by giving free motors (given by lottery by team) for the first year.


Making more and more sense... the turbo opens back up the options of high boost for street/road... low boost for ovals... push to pass that actually does something... etc.

Anybody ever tried to put the 2.65 turbo in the back of the current chassis? We could change motors for 2011, easy...

Still thinking about the chassis's though... there's a reason everybody ended up with the Reynard. It was simply quickest. Nobody would want to run the other chassis and get beat. How about a system of balances for the first year? Weight penalites? Then back off the balances over 2 to 3 years as things build?

Another season of Penske vs. Ganassi while everybody else plays "stay out of the way" is way too boring...

[tommylommykins]

hmm, looking at the images, I guess all of them have been created by artists only. The more traditional designs will obviously have been based off existing open wheel racers, and therefore look sensible, but the design of the deltawing won't have been 'touched' by the engineers in the same way.

The leads to some obvious fundamental visual issues in the design... How to install working suspension in the front, how to steer the front wheels, what to do with the masses of empty space in the boat-like nose and in the rear, etc.

However, I don't really think we can discard the concept just because of those obvious things...

What do you think?

[countersteer]

However, I don't really think we can discard the concept just because of those obvious things...

What do you think?

Read Gordon Kirby's two articles on the Delta Wing. (http://www.gordonkirby.com/categories/c ... chive.html

That will answer some of "the obvious things". Love it or hate it, it's more than an artist's conception. Would love to see it run in August...

[Jersey Tom]

Love it or hate it, it's more than an artist's conception.

Eh.. if it is anything more than a rough concept.. it isn't much more.

Some of the quotes from DeltaWing in those articles are such a pile of BS...

[autogyro]

I still keep being drawn to the fact that April the 1st will soon be here.

[Rev Limiter]

Countersteer in quotes:

"I'm still thinking through your idea of bringing back the Lola's, Swifts, Reynards (who owns that now?), etc."

Between Forsythe, Haas, Ganassi and Penske, I am sure that they would know where to source quite a few of them. Lola and Swift could probably recommence production at the drop of a signature....

"Honda would love to bring back a turbo powerplant AND have some competition. Cosworth would love to sell more engines too. (May have been on this thread where I read there was a warehouse full somewhere.)"

I forgot to mention Toyota who was reported to be one of the primary instigators of Ganassi leaving CART for IRL. They kept telling CART that they wanted to keep making turbo engines, but to run at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. If only the powers that be on both sides seized that moment...

"Making more and more sense... the turbo opens back up the options of high boost for street/road... low boost for ovals... push to pass that actually does something... etc. "

Why re-invent the [open] wheel? A chassis that can be reconfigured with aero/wing packages and turbo boost is a brilliant formula.

"Anybody ever tried to put the 2.65 turbo in the back of the current chassis? We could change motors for 2011, easy..."

No... I propose getting rid of the existing IRL eyesore [laughing stock] entirely, and bringing back real racing cars. This cannot happen soon enough. It should happen before May. Dropping a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine in the back might make them more watchable, particularly if you put rotor blades underneath and send them out to the IMS golf course. Maybe use them as Golf carts.

"Still thinking about the chassis's though... there's a reason everybody ended up with the Reynard. It was simply quickest."

Possibly, but the Swift was super fast, and there was a time when Lola wasn't even on the grid. I think tyres had much to do with Swift and Lola's lack of success in the late 1990s. Andretti for example, had two or three tyre failures with the Goodyears and near misses because of the tyres. DeFerran with the Reynard also suffered at the hands of Goodyear. I don't blame tyres only as there were other factors. For example, Andretti tried to lap the field at St Louis at one time and overcooked his Cosworth. Had he not tried to do that, he may have sailed to victory anyway. If people wanted to get their hands on surplus Reynards, they might just be able to do it... Surely, when Reynard was dissolved, someone acquired the licensing for the designs and intellectual property.

"Another season of Penske vs. Ganassi while everybody else plays "stay out of the way" is way too boring..."

You sayeth....

[Rev Limiter]

Countersteer in quotes:

"I'm still thinking through your idea of bringing back the Lola's, Swifts, Reynards (who owns that now?), etc."

Between Forsythe, Haas, Ganassi and Penske, I am sure that they would know where to source quite a few of them. Lola and Swift could probably recommence production at the drop of a signature....

"Honda would love to bring back a turbo powerplant AND have some competition. Cosworth would love to sell more engines too. (May have been on this thread where I read there was a warehouse full somewhere.)"

I forgot to mention Toyota who was reported to be one of the primary instigators of Ganassi leaving CART for IRL. They kept telling CART that they wanted to keep making turbo engines, but to run at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. If only the powers that be on both sides seized that moment...

"Making more and more sense... the turbo opens back up the options of high boost for street/road... low boost for ovals... push to pass that actually does something... etc. "

Why re-invent the [open] wheel? A chassis that can be reconfigured with aero/wing packages and turbo boost is a brilliant formula.

"Anybody ever tried to put the 2.65 turbo in the back of the current chassis? We could change motors for 2011, easy..."

No... I propose getting rid of the existing IRL eyesore [laughing stock] entirely, and bringing back real racing cars. This cannot happen soon enough. It should happen before May. Dropping a Briggs and Stratton lawn mower engine in the back might make them more watchable, particularly if you put rotor blades underneath and send them out to the IMS golf course. Maybe use them as Golf carts.

"Still thinking about the chassis's though... there's a reason everybody ended up with the Reynard. It was simply quickest."

Possibly, but the Swift was super fast, and there was a time when Lola wasn't even on the grid. I think tyres had much to do with Swift and Lola's lack of success in the late 1990s. Andretti for example, had two or three tyre failures with the Goodyears and near misses because of the tyres. DeFerran with the Reynard also suffered at the hands of Goodyear. I don't blame tyres only as there were other factors. For example, Andretti tried to lap the field at St Louis at one time and overcooked his Cosworth. Had he not tried to do that, he may have sailed to victory anyway. If people wanted to get their hands on surplus Reynards, they might just be able to do it... Surely, when Reynard was dissolved, someone acquired the licensing for the designs and intellectual property.

"Another season of Penske vs. Ganassi while everybody else plays "stay out of the way" is way too boring..."

You sayeth....

[wesley123]

Amerika never was the place for revolution in racing, so why try it? america and europe proved to be alot different worlds in terms of racing. They should look at the cars looks and easyness, not how revolutionairy it is, that is simpky something that will fail.
The Delta wing car is for me an reason already why i shouldnt watch IRL. Simply give room for more customers, and let them fight it out, then you will get cheap cars, and a real competition, take 4 cylinder engines and fit turbos on them, also alot cheaper then being revolutionairy.

My whole point is is that if the IRL is gonna be revolutionairy they are doomed to fail.

[ISLAMATRON]

Quick fix for all of Indycars promo problems... Grab PT(cuz he's the only one with the balls to do it) put him in an Champ Car LOLA, max boost and sneak him into the Daytona 500 and let everyone see how he runs circles around those "rental cars"(as someone else put it).

Yeah, silly I know... but man that would be cool.

[countersteer]

+1 =D> =D> =D>

... and give him an open mike so he can talk about it the whole time!!!

[strad]

The DeltaWing car is odd looking, but seems to work...I figure they will go with the Dallara but the Swift car is interesting..

DeltaWing LLC announced the initial results of its first full-size model test in the state-of-the-art Windshear wind tunnel, run on Tuesday in Concord, N.C.

“The test was a huge success and confirmed the trends of our advanced computational fluid dynamics modeling,” said Ben Bowlby, designer and chief technology officer of DeltaWing. “We are very pleased that the results in the wind tunnel support our CFD findings. This is a critical step for the project and allows us to move forward toward a final design with the growing confidence gained from these results. We continue to believe that the car will respond on the racetrack as our simulations have predicted over the past 16 months. We are more convinced than ever that the DeltaWing concept will meet or exceed the parameters that the IZOD IndyCar Series has established for the 2012 chassis.”

The full-size model used Firestone tires that were specifically manufactured for the DeltaWing car and completed the majority of the test at wind and road speeds of 140mph.

“The test could not have gone any better,” said Bowlby. “The Firestone tires were excellent and it is a testament to their advanced design and manufacturing technology that they were able to create these tires in such a compressed time frame. Firestone is a great partner to work with.”

The moving ground plane roadway of the Windshear facility was also put to use in analyzing wet condition spray patterns from the front wheels. The test established that spray off the narrow front wheels is minimal and will not interfere with the driver's vision in rainy conditions. The design of the body around the wheels dramatically reduces spray, improving visibility and safety in the rain, according to the company.

“Given the extensive aerodynamic data that we now have about the DeltaWing car, we believe that a four-cylinder turbocharged engine with approximately 300 to 350 horsepower will meet the performance requirements of the IZOD IndyCar Series for the 2012 chassis, doing so with only half the fuel consumption of today's car,” said Dan Partel, CEO of DeltaWing. "This is the engine design and displacement direction that the entire automobile industry is pursuing, and we think it makes our car's performance very relevant to the general public.”

DeltaWing's proposal is one of five bidding to become the next generation of Indy cars.

[Giblet]

Delta Wing stolen from Hot Wheels


Another great design looking like the Swift entry:

[Jersey Tom]

The latest Swift iteration is the heat. End of story.

[raceman]

The latest Swift iteration is the heat. End of story.

wow, this design is cool!!

[autogyro]

Yes but would you arrive at these designs from increasing improvements in aero development or as in this case from watching to many Bat man films?
IMO racing car development has lost its direction and is floundering around trying to find one while being pressured by ever diminishing funds and ever increasing demands from environmentalists.