Mercedes GP MGP W01

[ESPImperium]

Im in aggreement, the Brawn BGP001 to the Mercedes MGP W01 was a massive change in philosiphy.

*Adrian Newey opted for a evolution of the Red Bull RB5 for the RB6.
*Ferarri changed their philosiphy for the front end, integrated the DDD, but fundemantally they "fixed" the F60 and called the the F10 for my liking.
* McLaren changed philosiphy, fundamentally as the MP4/24 was a dog to the MP4/25.
* Force India just updated and evolved the VJM/03 from the VJM/02
* Renault changed the R30s philosiphy, but ultimatly produced much the same as Ferarri in their own style with from the R29s DNA, but only fixed.
* Toro Rosso, essencially a overhauled STR4, but the STR5 is now showing menace and promice to what the STR4 was.
* BWM Sauber did what Renault and Ferarri produced a fixed and integrated C29 from the F1.09s gene pool.

Brawn/Mercedes went and changed a whole lot from the championship winning car of last year, when all they had to do was update and evolve for the new regulations. Im sure that if they evolved the BGP001, the W01 would have been alot stronger from a baseline that it currently is, posibly up there with Red Bull.

What ive learnt is philosiphys should really only last two years, sometimes three if you can get away with it. Take the cars from 2004-2009, the best of that bunch evolved from one the year before the domanant Renault R25 and R26 was evolved from the R24, the Ferarri F2007 and F2008 were evolved from the F2006, the McLaren MP4/22 and MP4/23 were evolved from a long line of cars going back to the MP4/20 to a point. I think theres some Honda attitudes in the Mercedes team that need taken away, take the Honda RA106 for a case study, that car should have been taken and evolved and matured in 2007 and 2008, but wasnt. Both years the Honda team wanted "fresh sheet" designs that were fundamentally flawed on many levels. BMW Sauber have been the closest in recent years to getting it oh-so-almost right with the F1.08 being evolved from the F1.06 using the evolve and mature philosiphy. If Robert Kubica had gottn his way, and BMW were have to have kept development on all the way till the end, im sure there would have been a 3 way battle at the end of 2008 between Hamilton/Massa and Kubica. There in that lies my point. To developp a good car, you need a long term view, one where you design and get the baseline in the first year, improve on in the second, mature in the third year. As Mike Gascgoyne said at the weekend in the BBC F1 Forum, its all about getting the ballance right, something Brwan/Mercedes have lost in transistion and translation. For me, Mercedes should have made this the transistion year, calling the team Brawn-Mercedes, basically pulling out of McLaren, but starting the groundwork for the 2011 season, where it would have been called Mercedes. Putting Heigfeld and Rossberg in the seats, with Michael in as "special advisor" before coming back in 2011 for two years.

All this is my personal view.

[dren]

The W01 was far along in its design process before Mercedes was ever in the picture with Brawn last year.

The W01 doesn't look that far off from the BGP01. The front wing is almost the same, the diffuser isn't much different, the sidepod inlets are larger, I'm guessing to better suit the Mercedes engine. The W01 carries over a lot of the same design ideas from the BGP01.

[dren]

The W01 was far along in its design process before Mercedes was ever in the picture with Brawn last year.

The W01 doesn't look that far off from the BGP01. The front wing is almost the same, the diffuser isn't much different, the sidepod inlets are larger, I'm guessing to better suit the Mercedes engine. The W01 carries over a lot of the same design ideas from the BGP01.

[dren]

What i think is the problem with the W01 is that is that the driver it was primarily designed for isnt at the team any more. That guy is over at McLaren now. I think that Nico has beenable to adapt better to the W01 from his experience from the last 2 Williams cars where he has adapted and developed his style each year to suit the car better. I think that the car is whats limiting Michael the most as its just too smooth for his style, where the car has a little bite, where the rear end kicks out a little, the beast is already tame. He needs more of a beast to tame more to speak.

However, im giving it till after Barcelona to make a decision on the W01, like many cars, once they have had their first major update. Many cars have recived a half step update before the season began, small upgrades that have came from all the fly away races make this into a full step with baseline set-up understanding as well.

Sure, JB had some input into the car, but I don't think the issues with the car now are because of JB's input.

[ggajic]

Mercedes GP needs Rory Byrne. He is the man who designed all cars in which Schumacher won all his 7 championships.

[hecti]

Mercedes GP needs Rory Byrne. He is the man who designed all cars in which Schumacher won all his 7 championships.

yea, i wonder what he's up to right now....

[ringo]

The focus should be on Nico and not Micheal. I don't think the year is over for them as yet.
Nico is well placed in the standings and all they have to do is get the car to the point where it can win at least a 1 off race. Mercedes need a win and Nico looks like the man to do it. Shumacher has the capability, but he does not have the hunger right now.
Barichello out qualifying Shumacher in the wet in a slower Williams shows that the W01 is not the whole problem.
The W01 should be continually devoloped with Nico in mind, and next year they can look at Shumacher or Heidfeld; ie if MS chooses to leave.

[Giblet]

Back on topic:

Not really. None of any of this has anything to do with the car, or any of the posts talking about the two drivers in the team and how good or bad they are in the wet, or on different tires in changing conditions.

It's been laid out pretty simply by the mods, that these car threads are for talking about aspects of the car.

[marcush.]

I´m quite amazed you would say the Brawn BGP01 is only a minor step to the MGP W01.

In fact Brawn was the only team altering their nose height from last years layout significantly...
so if those words have any truth:...front end design is most influential for the whole car aero...then Brawn was the one team going up a new road with their only semi drooping nose....

You are of course right with the Aero appendages like wings and difussers were Brawn
has not yet come up with big steps .

[JohnsonEvilTwin]

The more I look at the Mercedes the more half developed it looks.
I think Brawn ran out of cash before he could get the details on the W01.

[dren]

I´m quite amazed you would say the Brawn BGP01 is only a minor step to the MGP W01.

In fact Brawn was the only team altering their nose height from last years layout significantly...
so if those words have any truth:...front end design is most influential for the whole car aero...then Brawn was the one team going up a new road with their only semi drooping nose....

You are of course right with the Aero appendages like wings and difussers were Brawn
has not yet come up with big steps .

I don't think it is a carbon copy, or anything close to that, of the BGP001. I am saying relatively speaking, the W01 is a step forward from last year's design like all of the other cars in the field bar the Mclaren. They went in a completely new direction.

[noname]

The more I look at the Mercedes the more half developed it looks.
I think Brawn ran out of cash before he could get the details on the W01.

W01 is just the car designed in an "ordinary" way - they had about half a year to do this, they had to look carefully at the balance sheet and, at the same time, they were fighting for the titles to the last moment.

with their 2009 challenger they had luxury of having a lot of time and almost unlimited budget (in F1 terms).

maybe what they have to learn is how to work with the limitation they are facing at the moment. with all respect for Ross Brawn and his achievements in the past he did not have to deal with such a strict financial boundaries like last year.

[dren]

What do you all expect to see upgraded/added to the car in the European races? I don't know if we'll see anything new in China.

[ESPImperium]

Id expect updates in Barcelona, with all of teams doing the same. Some teams will bring 50% steps, whitch is arround 2 seconds for them, however, Mercedes are probably gonna bring arround a 25% improvement in base laptime whitch is arround 0.7-0.9 of a second for their car.

I recon that we are gonna see a shake up at Barcelona, cars that are already knocking on the door get even closer. The gap at Bahrain was pretty vast, but come Abu Dhabi, id expect the cars from the teams that made it from 2009 to be all within a second to a second and a half of one another. Lotus knocking on the 2 second barier with Virgin and Hispania arround 4 to 5 seconds off the pace.

The W01 isnt a dog like the McLaren last year, its got more potential, but its one of those cars that can go either way, if it hasnt won by Canada/Silverstone, id expect development to be stopped and all resource put behind the MGP W02 for 2011.

[marcush.]

Id expect updates in Barcelona, with all of teams doing the same. Some teams will bring 50% steps, whitch is arround 2 seconds for them, however, Mercedes are probably gonna bring arround a 25% improvement in base laptime whitch is arround 0.7-0.9 of a second for their car.

I recon that we are gonna see a shake up at Barcelona, cars that are already knocking on the door get even closer. The gap at Bahrain was pretty vast, but come Abu Dhabi, id expect the cars from the teams that made it from 2009 to be all within a second to a second and a half of one another. Lotus knocking on the 2 second barier with Virgin and Hispania arround 4 to 5 seconds off the pace.

The W01 isnt a dog like the McLaren last year, its got more potential, but its one of those cars that can go either way, if it hasnt won by Canada/Silverstone, id expect development to be stopped and all resource put behind the MGP W02 for 2011.

how can you know..
if anything ,the mercedes guys did not bullshit around,and always gave a clear impression where they think they stand and how long it will take them to come up with definite solutions.
In my personal view the minuses of the current car will be turned into plus in barcelona.
The big question to me is not :will the Merc improve significantly ,butjust how much will Ferrari and more so Redbull find with their Barcelona development step.
To my understanding ,if you have reached something of a performance peak near optimum the task of finding chunks worth half a second with optimisations is a huge effort.Obviously this is based on the asumption the RedBull is very close to optimum..
with regard to how the RB looked last year ,I´d say the air gets thin for Newey´s
guys to make as big steps as Mercedes and Macs could possibly do .