Mercedes GP MGP W01

[WhiteBlue]

Lads im sure they can fix the problem they spends thousands of hours in laboratories and they have top people with degrees and nerds working like crazy to sort it, i hope by spain they are competitive

It is possible, but in reality we are dealing with incremental improvements this season and such development dynamics are mainly ruled by resource relations.

[raymondu999]

I think Webber just practically ruled out Mercedes by saying it's a 3-way battle between Ferrari McL and RBR for the WCC

[marcush.]

we are not in the know if they have too much or not enough weight bias towards the front.both could lead to understeer .
nobody ever made the statement they were cooking the fronts but we have evidence they abuse the rears...
so to me it looks like they have missed the boat in terms of weight distribution by a large margin..and to me it is now looking more likely they are rear heavy ,why else would they consider new rear suspension and gearbox housing ?

[WhiteBlue]

I think Webber just practically ruled out Mercedes by saying it's a 3-way battle between Ferrari McL and RBR for the WCC

I don't think Mark is the best placed man to make such a judgement but unless Ross and Norbert pull something very surprising out of the hat he could be right. If you miss the boat by one second and have only half the development resources of Ferrari and McLaren you are on a steep learning curve for catch up. I dunno if they can manage to be three times more inventive which they would have to be to catch the other teams.

[marcush.]

the question here is :
is the MGP W01 underdeveloped compared to the Red Bull ,Ferrari and Mac
or
has it a design flaw ,avoiding it to exploit the potential that is already there
and
is this flaw fully understood and can be rectified without building a new car

From my understanding ,Red Bull have the equivalent of what had Brawn last year

a car that is exploiting the rules near to the max ,so to find laptime be it in qualy or in the race is likely to bring drawbacks somewhere else..

comparing the two cars on the track ,the time difference is surprisingly low.So if they really have found the reason for their unability to use front and rear tyres
to 100% they have potential to find a big chunk of time in one go.It is not about
finding the odd point in downforce here and there we are talking here so the gains
are of course potentially bigger.
On the other hand ,if they were unable to identify the real reason(s) for the lack in performance itcould as well be they will have to accept this as a learning experience.

[raymondu999]

I don't think Mark is the best placed man to make such a judgement

I didn't either. I was just saying that he wrote them off. I'm not saying that he's right, but I'm saying that he did it.

On the car, I don't think the W01 is fundamentally slow. It should be quite fast, as it was also designed as a continuation of the car that was, at the beginning of 2009, the class of the field. But I think they do have some fundamental balance issues that just prevents the drivers from pushing to the maximum, or being comfortable with the car's driving in the first place.

[imightbewrong]

[Diego F1]

Hi guys, Im from Colombia and i have been reading this forum for two years...

I have to say something about the mercedes car development. If it is true they are going to change to a W01B car, that can explain the lack of new parts because:

1. It would be meaningless to desing them for a car that its going to change a lot soon. It would be better to design them for the new aero.

2. They will need as much resources as possible in such a big design change.

I dont know the amount of resources of a team like Renault, but I guess it could be similar or even smaller than Mercedes, and they have been capable to bring interesting improvements every race. So I think Mercedes have to be working in this big step, and I dont see the point in the worries about their lack of resources. Im sure they have enough, Mercedes is the owner!. The only worry I have is if their B-car will reach their objectives.

Thanks for making this community possible.

[Ganxxta]

Mercedes is going to test the F-Duct in China:
Brawn:

"In the wind tunnel and in the simulation, our system works". "If Friday's practice confirms these results, then we put the technology in a race."

http://translate.google.de/translate?js ... auto&tl=en

[raymondu999]

I wonder if they'll have to change that half-fin they have though... to something like what RBR/Ferrari/McLaren/FI has.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Raymondu

Yes they will in all likelihood be looking at a new "fin" design.
My understanding is the air is channeled. For that to happen it needs a connection between the apertures or the air will just dissipate.
Furthermore those pictures do not indicate an F-duct, So we will have to wait and see wether they can add these parts to the car in what is roughly 12 hours time(FP1).

As for the resource restriction Brawn have around 400 at present. The figure Brawn himself has said the team are working under next years resource restriction rules on autosport AND motorsport.com find the links yourself as it appears whiteblues' link were of no use to you. Those links did in fact mention numbers, so I see no problem with them.
And if you cannot see that "around 400" is closer to the required 350 staff than the 700 currently in the employ of Ferrari and McLaren and 600 in Red Bulls case, then you are barking mad.

[Pierce89]

As for the resource restriction Brawn have around 400 at present. The figure Brawn himself has said the team are working under next years resource restriction rules on autosport AND motorsport.com find the links yourself as it appears whiteblues' link were of no use to you. Those links did in fact mention numbers, so I see no problem with them.
And if you cannot see that "around 400" is closer to the required 350 staff than the 700 currently in the employ of Ferrari and McLaren and 600 in Red Bulls case, then you are barking mad.

It's just an excuse,they pay shumi over 20 mil a year,and Shumi wouldn't join a team with less resources than the rest and expect to be competitive. It's all just making excuses for a lack of performance. If they were winning like last year, it wouldn't have come up so... let's drop this fairly OT squabble I mistakenly started

[WhiteBlue]

It's just an excuse,they pay shumi over 20 mil a year,and Shumi wouldn't join a team with less resources than the rest and expect to be competitive. It's all just making excuses for a lack of performance. If they were winning like last year, it wouldn't have come up so... let's drop this fairly OT squabble I mistakenly started

With all due respect for a fellow forum member I cannot fail to notice the nonsense in your post. What has Schumacher's salary to do with the development resources? Nothing!

First they don't pay him 20 mil but six or seven. Then he has priviledges to make personal sponsor contracts which are based on his own market value and those are rolled into the salary by the media.

Second Schumacher had a significant influence in securing additional sponsorship exceeding 20 mil $ per year for Mercedes and that value is still growing. Those are factors influencing driver contracts and salaries beside the ability as a driver.

Finally I don't rate your opinion compared to Domenicali (said Ferrari to have 850 heads) and Brawn (said Merc to have 450 heads). Those guys know what they talk about. Do you really think you know better? Human resource numbers and resource quality is a key figure in development capability. Ferrari and McLaren have had more money and success over the past decade than BAR/Honda/Brawn/Mercedes. They are likely to have better resources on top of twice the numbers. I expect Brawn to change that over the years but even he is no magician.

[Pierce89]

It's just an excuse,they pay shumi over 20 mil a year,and Shumi wouldn't join a team with less resources than the rest and expect to be competitive. It's all just making excuses for a lack of performance. If they were winning like last year, it wouldn't have come up so... let's drop this fairly OT squabble I mistakenly started

With all due respect for a fellow forum member I cannot fail to notice the nonsense in your post. What has Schumacher's salary to do with the development resources? Nothing!

First they don't pay him 20 mil but six or seven. Then he has priviledges to make personal sponsor contracts which are based on his own market value and those are rolled into the salary by the media.

Second Schumacher had a significant influence in securing additional sponsorship exceeding 20 mil $ per year for Mercedes and that value is still growing. Those are factors influencing driver contracts and salaries beside the ability as a driver.

Finally I don't rate your opinion compared to Domenicali (said Ferrari to have 850 heads) and Brawn (said Merc to have 450 heads). Those guys know what they talk about. Do you really think you know better?

Shumi makes 30 mil, 21 from Merc and 9 from personal sponsors. My point was that Merc has as much money i.e. RESOURCES as anyone. Shumi wouldn't join a small under-resourced (neither small in itslelf nor small in relation to other teams) team. He expects WDC's and lightning fast development. You don't do that with less resources than everyone else.(that era passed long ago)

[Pierce89]

@Johnson and WB: I don't want to squabble, I just consider Mercedes-Benz Grand Prix Racing a huge manpower and money operation compared to the MAJORITY of F1 teams, and I don't believe they would purposely handicap themselves by running under next years RRA. The RRA is more than headcount, it reduces wind tunnel hours and CFD capacity,and outsource funding.