Mercedes GP MGP W01

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 23555.html

They plan to push the front suspension further ahead for Barcelona to lengthen the wheel base and get more weight on the rear wheels. This means a lot of the front and rear end aero will be new with a bigger DDD as well.

In Istanbul the Fing duct will be active and a further big aero update will follow. Presumably they are working on reduced weight components to optimize the weight distribution.

As I said if they cannot get the car to suit Schumacher and Schumacher can't drive it effectively they can still sit Nick in his car.

[Just_a_fan]

As I said if they cannot get the car to suit Schumacher and Schumacher can't drive it effectively they can still sit Nick in his car.

Why risk messing up Nick? He's doing a great job. If they can't get Schuie sorted, well, that's his problem really.

[mike]

the fact that the nose is high means that if u move the weight to the front (considering the wing can only take soo much) u move the c.g higher and slows the car down even more, so maybe can balance it but unable to make it as fast.. i mean with such big fuel tank its only so much they can do..

[Jersey Tom]

JT,after thousands of km clocked ,i doubt there is much left in terms of airpressure ,toe settings ,cambersettings or diffoptions to try out.
As they seem to go in circles with their setup not being able to maximise on using the tire potential (in terms of lap time and in terms of endurance compared to the top competitors )I ´d say they have a medium sized dog buried in their car.It appears that as soon as they have to constantly push one end of the car just goes away from them dramatically wich leads to the conclusion they are not working the tyres as evenly as they should and basically cooking the tyres on one axle then.this also explains the lack of ultimate lap time ,as not all tyres give optimum grip.It maybe they got a balance but obviously not at the same level as RB ,wich is a strong hint they got their basic layout wrong.

They haven't clocked thousands of km's at Shanghai. Different tracks have different setup requirements. Possible they came with a setup that was a bit off and just didn't get to tune out the right thing.

Also don't think they've clocked thousands of km's on wet tires in general.

Point being.. many things it could be. Seems silly to just say "oh yes it is clearly weight distribution" or what have you.

[marcush.]

JT,after thousands of km clocked ,i doubt there is much left in terms of airpressure ,toe settings ,cambersettings or diffoptions to try out.
As they seem to go in circles with their setup not being able to maximise on using the tire potential (in terms of lap time and in terms of endurance compared to the top competitors )I ´d say they have a medium sized dog buried in their car.It appears that as soon as they have to constantly push one end of the car just goes away from them dramatically wich leads to the conclusion they are not working the tyres as evenly as they should and basically cooking the tyres on one axle then.this also explains the lack of ultimate lap time ,as not all tyres give optimum grip.It maybe they got a balance but obviously not at the same level as RB ,wich is a strong hint they got their basic layout wrong.

They haven't clocked thousands of km's at Shanghai. Different tracks have different setup requirements. Possible they came with a setup that was a bit off and just didn't get to tune out the right thing.

Also don't think they've clocked thousands of km's on wet tires in general.

Point being.. many things it could be. Seems silly to just say "oh yes it is clearly weight distribution" or what have you.

ah .I got your point there.
I was referring only to the general situation ,not the special circumstances in the wet race or their intermediate tyre use...wich of course is a complete different game altogether.When talking about the shanghai race (wich we should discuss in the proper thread then)I´d say Schumacher has already admitted he and his team did a lousy job with their tyre management.So obviously he did change too
early and abused his tyres with the consequences he encountered.
So yes you are right in this.

It was Ross Brawn not big marcush. who officially stated Merc was wrong with their weight distribution ...normally the guy is not bs around..

[ArchAngel]

Despite the admitted deficiencies (weight distribution, etc.) of the W01 and its lack of "compatibility" with Schumacher's driving style, yet without also meaning to exonerate Michael from his inability to match Rosberg in the same car, I wonder if Schumi's difficulties in setting up the car to his liking can also be attributed in part to what I speculate to be a similar lack of rapport and synergy in his working relationship with his race engineer, Andrew Shovlin?

Either that or maybe Jock Clear, who has no love lost for Schumacher ever since Jerez '97, has been covertly tampering with Schu's car and setups from the other side of the MGP garage?

[ggajic]

It is not like that. F1 is business like any other, I suppose that there are no emotions. You could expect Ferrari to do same to Alonso for let`s say 2006. I suppose that there is something else. After all, Mercedes admitted that both Nico`s and Schumacher`s car had same setup for Shangai race - yet Schumacher car was significantly slower in slow corners and worn tyres faster then Nico`s car. It is hardly due to different driving styles, maybe it has something to do with chassis used by Schumacher, or it is simply tyre issue. Both McLarens are same car, but Hamilton also lost pace to Jensen in final laps of race. much like he lost it during Australian race. I suspect that issue with tyres is far more serious and that Bridgestone is intentionaly doing this to make F1 more exciting and unpredictable.

[RacingManiac]

Remember 2005. and 2006. ? Of course, someone might said that Michelin gave unfair advantage to Renault and McLaren in 2005. But point is that this year - tyres seems to wear out much quicker and that everyone is suffering with similar problem. If we had two tyre suppliers - perhaps one would try to make tyre that would last longer.

When you are running controlled tire, you are working with what the tire CAN do, not what you want the tire to do. Everyone has the same problem. They always have the option to pit more and pay the consequences of losing position. But if thats what you gotta do thats what you gotta do. I'd rather have the controlled tire if that means the driver and the team that does the better job wins, than have the car with the best tire wins.

[strad]

I see...It's Mikes' chassis..ok sure..

Michael Schumacher will not only have an upgraded car in Spain, it will also be a completely different chassis.

Mercedes' Norbert Haug suggested after the Chinese grand prix, where the seven time world champion was comprehensively beaten all weekend by his teammate, that the 41-year-old's actual chassis is carrying an inherent problem.

"I think we need to replace his chassis for Barcelona," Haug is quoted as saying by the German broadcaster Sky.

Nico Rosberg qualified the sister W01 seven tenths faster than Schumacher's, and then finished on the podium, nearly a minute ahead of his famous countryman.

"Don't worry: Michael has not forgotten how to drive," said Haug, after Niki Lauda slammed Schumacher's driving as "mediocre".

24-year-old Rosberg, meanwhile, denied that the result in Shanghai is confirmation about who is Mercedes' number one driver in 2010.

"It's definitely not the case," he said. "It's even between us. Of course I'm very, very happy with the way it's going for me, but we both get the same possibilities."

[ggajic]

I don`t get it. If it is same car and same chassis and same setup it is supposed to utilize tires in same way. However, last three races looked like Schumacher and Nico were in different car. It makes sense that more aggressive driver with same setup would wear out his tires faster - but it would also mean that he would clock faster times. It makes no sense that someone with so huge experience wears out his tires faster thus being slower. If we agree that this tactics require more pit stops, in McLaren case it is sensible - Lewis is more aggressive, wears out his tires faster, has to stop more then Button. But in Mercedes case - it absolutely makes no sense.

[vealio]

Yes, that´s a bit fishy I think. The car just behaved horrible out of the slower turns this weekend. As Ross Brawn said, it were not the complex turns but the easy ones where Michael was struggling heavily. Turn 12/13 was unbelievable, I think he lost already up to 2-3 tenth on Rosberg at those two turns every time. Michael may not be fully up to it but there is no way that he loses 7 tenth or even 1 second, as some laps in qualifying suggested, with a healthy car on Nico.

[ringo]

The tyres are the same for all, so I agree with markush. There is a weight distribution problem on the car and Nico deals with it much better. There may be an issue with Schumacher's chassis as well. We will have to wait and see. If the chassis is sound and Schumacher continues the way he drives now Merc will probably swap Nick into that car later in the season. They would still be able to use Schumacher as a reserve driver and consultant.

You are entertaining the thoughts of him backing down?
Remember how Barichello came back strong after Brawn sorted out the braking issues. I think Micheal's problem is the lack of traction control, though he may not want to admit it. But looking on how the car exits the turns after an over take, his seems to be the only one coming out a little to slowly.
He says the car is the exact same setup as Nico's so i suspect it's just a matter of being fitter for all the race laps and also getting used to the lack of traction control. His whole driving style will be affected becuase of this.
Heidfeld should come in ofcourse to maximise points, but the media will kill Shumi for backing out halfway.
I hope the W01 updates maybe suit him much better so he has a similarly strong race like in Bahrain.

[ringo]

I don`t get it. If it is same car and same chassis and same setup it is supposed to utilize tires in same way. However, last three races looked like Schumacher and Nico were in different car. It makes sense that more aggressive driver with same setup would wear out his tires faster - but it would also mean that he would clock faster times. It makes no sense that someone with so huge experience wears out his tires faster thus being slower. If we agree that this tactics require more pit stops, in McLaren case it is sensible - Lewis is more aggressive, wears out his tires faster, has to stop more then Button. But in Mercedes case - it absolutely makes no sense.

Not a very accurate statement. The tyres wear according to how they are used. Shumacher and lewis were doing more battles than Button and Nico. It wasn't because they are agressive drivers who drive a little bit harder. It's because of what aggressive drivers eventually end up doing, which is fighting on track, involving locking up last minute, going off line on dirty or wet parts, then cutting in. These are the things that make it seem these guys wear tyres more. If all 4 had the same exact event less race, we wont see much difference in the wearing of the tyres.
Shumacher's went because of the fights and because his last stint was probably the longest of the all the drivers.

[ArchAngel]

@ggajic, I was just taking the piss in that last paragraph of my previous post. Hence, the smiley that came with it.

But I do feel (ergo, personal speculation/opinion) that Schumacher and Shovlin are not yet working as well as they possibly could. I'm reminded of Button's struggles with the BGP-01 when Barrichello and Jock Clear had finally figured out how to consistently out-qualify Button in the latter stages of last season.

Still, Shovlin is a very competent race engineer, and working with the vastly experienced Schumacher (who's supposed to be very adept at technical feedback and car setups/development) should generate enough synergy between the two to allow Michael to get on top his problems with the W01. Worryingly, this doesn't seem to be happening yet. And with Nico having already put the car on the podium twice, Schumi cannot be without "fault" in his own struggles with the W01.

@strad, attributing his struggles to an inherent (yet only theorized/speculative) problem with the chassis itself does seem to be a bit of a stretch. But with Merc now pulling out all the stops to give him a car from Barca onwards that will supposedly be more "compatible" & responsive to his driving style, the onus is now completely on Mike to immediately prove that he is not yet an also-ran already overtaken by age (and every other young/rookie midfielder out there). I just hope that any potential gains he makes doesn't come at the expense of Rosberg's own performance (which has already been very satisfactory).

[WhiteBlue]

The tyres are the same for all, so I agree with markush. There is a weight distribution problem on the car and Nico deals with it much better. There may be an issue with Schumacher's chassis as well. We will have to wait and see. If the chassis is sound and Schumacher continues the way he drives now Merc will probably swap Nick into that car later in the season. They would still be able to use Schumacher as a reserve driver and consultant.

You are entertaining the thoughts of him backing down?
Remember how Barichello came back strong after Brawn sorted out the braking issues. I think Micheal's problem is the lack of traction control, though he may not want to admit it. But looking on how the car exits the turns after an over take, his seems to be the only one coming out a little to slowly.
He says the car is the exact same setup as Nico's so i suspect it's just a matter of being fitter for all the race laps and also getting used to the lack of traction control. His whole driving style will be affected becuase of this.
Heidfeld should come in ofcourse to maximise points, but the media will kill Shumi for backing out halfway.
I hope the W01 updates maybe suit him much better so he has a similarly strong race like in Bahrain.

I don't know what the problem is. We will have to wait and see if there is a fault with the chassis. I was speculating a bit on the up coming situation in summer. If Brawn abandons the W01 in favor of the W02 development and Schumacher still struggles with the car they would be mad not to try Nick Heidfeld. It would depend of Heidfeld's performance then. If Nick is faster Merc would have no choice but switch him into the car for the rest of the season. It would be a very awkward situation indeed, but they have Nick there for a reason.