US lite truck industry literally breaking down

[flynfrog]

GM must think the US tax payers are a bunch of wankers.

More like the US Congressman and other elected representatives. Everyone is applauding this BS campaign full of lies and like to commend GM for turning around, but with their bankruptcy they didn't have to pay off the debt they already had. What's even more BS is the illegal use of the banking industry and the creating of funds they don't have the authority for or the money itself. This is blatant spitting in the face of the American people, and the flaunting of the fact that they can get away with it time and again. I hate this government, and I wish that people would wake the hell up. What's going to happen when this happens again? They've already done it with the rail industry years ago, AMTRAK is a joke, and this WILL happen again. Idiots point at Capitalism as the reason it all happened and this is a lie, the President doesn't have the authority to decide what industries fail or succeed and the fact that TWO Presidents have made that decisions proves the lie that this is the effect of Capitalism. True capitalism would have seen them fail.

have you seen half the people who vote in this country I would say you are both right

[Ray]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you Ray. Our government has been propping up this economic system ("laissez-faire capitalism") from the time it became obvious that it was meant to collapse under its own weight. If you think this is government intervention, what do you call sending out the National Guard to massacre strikers? The Haymarket Riot? The Seattle General Strike? The Ludlow Massacre? That famous ruling about the 1st Amendment that you can stop someone from "yelling fire in a crowded theater" was applied to a guy who was peacefully running for president himself, working within the democratic system. It's not new, it was around long before FDR or LBJ. Meanwhile the state with the highest membership in the socialist party was--dig this--Oklahoma. Not exactly your hoighty-toighty liberal elite, is it? Marxism is a VERY easy sell to a down-trodden, poor population.

And the charge flying around that Obama's some kind of socialist--give me a break. He's just trying to do what every other president has done in times like these, prop up the middle class so you don't get a genuine revolution. Blacks in this country were only given some shred of citizenship when the establishment realized that MLK Jr. and Malcolm X were starting to go commie and between the Panthers and the SDS the whole thing could reach critical mass. So they let just a few more people into the middle class, gave them just a few more rights, quieted the USSR's criticism of our race relations, and the problem disappeared.

The wealth gap since then has continued to grow exponentially. Propping up big business is what our government has been committed to since the Industrial Revolution. The system would've collapsed a long long time ago and all this arguing over GM and Goldman/Sachs never would've happened. Deregulation and letting failing companies go into freefall at this point will just leave us all without jobs and accelerate the process of filtering capital to those who already have it. And then, when people can't feed their families, they don't have health care, and government is clearly on the side of the rich, Marxism will be an easy sell again. Bottom line, if you want Communist revolution, vote Palin/Romney in 2012.

I never said anything about Obama, socialism, Marxism, Palin/Romney. Quit assuming. I never laid blame with any of those parties specifically and I don't think that this is Obamas fault or that Palin/Romney are a good choice by any stretch. Before you attack my views, that you assume and attack me for without sufficient evidence, PM me. Until then, quit assuming. We have enough of that on this forum.

Our current problem is that both parties are extremely corrupt and I like to say that they are two cheeks of the same ass.

[jon-mullen]

No, I'm sorry, the second paragraph on was a departure and wasn't really directed at you.

My point in reply to you is that this idea of the glory days of capitalism is a fiction, it never existed. "True capitalism" would have already revolved into the next economic system that we'd all be complaining about.

Our current problem is that both parties are extremely corrupt and I like to say that they are two cheeks of the same ass.

Agree full stop.

[Ray]

My point in reply to you is that this idea of the glory days of capitalism is a fiction, it never existed. "True capitalism" would have already revolved into the next economic system that we'd all be complaining about.

Then I guess we kind of agree but had a misunderstanding. Capitalism died a very young death many many years ago, and it grates my nerves when people point the finger at capitalism as the source of our troubles. There isn't a single person alive in this country from when we actually had it. Companies used to go under for valid reasons, crappy products/bad working conditions/bad bookkeeping/so on, and people are stupid enough to protest capitalism as the source. And in of all places, Europe!

Capitalism doesn't exist anywhere on Earth and people foam at the mouth screaming how it's caused the whole of our problems when that is completely false. I guess when you control education, you can change history and teach lies to everyone.

[jon-mullen]

Personally I find classifying ordinary differential equations easier than classifying this government and economic system, and a whole lot easier to solve!

Really the complexity of government is in the ruling class's favor. We all get to bang on about this bill and that ruling while the whole system's set up to rob us blind.

The thing that REALLY concerns me is the way our news outlets have picked sides. It's really hard for me to watch Fox News without feeling an aneurysm coming on and I imagine conservatives feel the same way about MSNBC. (we'll ignore CNN as it's run by their viewers.) And somehow BOTH manage to strike this indignant populist pose, how is that possible? They'd like you to believe the most important thing is that you should be mad at the other side. I guess if our parties are two cheeks of the same ass, that'd make our news...dingleberries?

[Ray]

Mainstream media is bought and paid for. You should NEVER trust anything either side says. They say what their masters tell them. Alot like elected members of our government actually.

[autogyro]

You should take a look at the media sanitized three party elections we are being forced to suffer here in the UK.
It is so bland and devoid of policy or honesty as to be positively sickening.