Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

[vall]

I think it was clear what was going to happen for a couple of laps. Webber was much slower then Vettel and you could see it coming.

However, now you now why I don't rate Webber at all. He knew Vettel was there because he looked in his mirror and should simply moved over and concentrated on getting track position for the next corner where he probably would have kept the position, but he didn't. He thinks he can just drive into people. You notice that's exactly what Lewis and Jensen were doing when they were racing. It was all about track position for the next corner.

That's what Christian Horner said anyway, and he's basically all but said it was Mark's fault.

I think Vettel turned right and hit Mark. It was not MArk's fault. For god sake, he just drove straight.....

[vyselegend]

I believe this thread is now irremediably condemned to become another trolling fight between pro and cons Vettel, (or am I too fatalist?) but for sure it was an interresting GP in several ways.

Vettel then accepts the blame (bet most won't remember that)
I believe blame goes to both drivers. Webber for pushing wide at the start of the straight bit and Vettel for turning into Webber and causing the crash.

The last bit is the most prejudiciable! Vettel really did compromise his whole team (a freakin' double) for personal vanity! He is obviously responsible, and seems to admit it.
It is possible for anyone to make something really stupid under pressure and/or lead by arrogance, especially for a race driver in a top serie, but as long as it's not repeated ad infinitum (don't become a 2000-2006 Schuey), and you're strong enough to admit your faults, you should be forgiven.

Vettel played it selfish and destroyed his team effort, but I bet you won't see him do it again. It's not the first time he seems to take moves on Mark that he wouldn't dare take on other, as he kind of took the habit to be a number one to Webbo, but that time he forgot it's not the case anymore... Let him learn from that and grow up, he's an intelligent driver anyway...

The most interesting bit from the race IMO isn't about internal team fights at MAcca and Red Bull, but about the evolution of top teams, as Ferrari seems to have been overtaken in race pace by both Mercedes and Renault, which is furthermore underlined by the fact Istanbul Park is not a one-off, but admitedly a relevant track in terms of overall efficiency for an F1 car.

I'm very interested to see now how teams will react, as you can bet Ferrari won't accept the situation, but even Mercedes have to admit they cannot stall the MGP01 development as planned, because of Renault's pressure and Ferrari's predictable resurgence, so these three teams, despite left with little to no chance to fight back on Macca and Red Bull in pace, will have to keep fighting hard to ensure they won't be the fifth team in the end!
Very exciting prospect!

Very disapointed for Petrov, who definitly showed he belong to the top of the field, but has the overall luck of a Raikonen or a Webber up to now...

[segedunum]

Vettel moved over on webber just like he did to Hamilton in the pit lane.

It's amusing to see this shite brought up again, but not surprising:

1. That was in the pitlane where you're not allowed to pass and overtake.


2. Hamilton decided to drive where you aren't allowed to drive in the pitlane.

3. Hamilton wasn't going to get past as Vettel was clearly going to and had no track position or right to do what he did as Vettel did.

4. Vettel had track position by virtue of being alongside and ahead.

Absolutely not related in any way, but you'll get some nutcases trying to draw parallels.

[djos]

Mclaren 1 2. Coutesy of Vettel.

I thought this from AHN on twitter summed it up Nicely!

AdamHayNicholls: When's the last time Vettel cost webber a win? Japan '07”

[Giblet]

WOW, he pulled a Schuey! Pure Jerez 1997!

Bullshit! Horner said it clearly. Mark squeezed. Vettel did not hit Mark by intention. The guys both did not give each other enough space, he said.

Right. He rightly squeezed, totally legit and within his range of options to win the race. He left Vettel room, and Vettel was on the outside. Vettel was trying a low percentage pass on his teammate.

What happened in the moment of the pass does not cancel that Vettel put the two of them in that position. Him too close on the outside, and Webber being put in a position to defend his position.

[Gary]

WOW, he pulled a Schuey! Pure Jerez 1997!

Bullshit! Horner said it clearly. Mark squeezed. Vettel did not hit Mark by intention. The guys both did not give each other enough space, he said.

That is the position you would expect from a team manager who sees a need to reduce the possibility of any explosions within the team and who is hoping (some hope!) to shut down the press on the issue.

[segedunum]

I think Vettel turned right and hit Mark. It was not MArk's fault. For god sake, he just drove straight.....

I'm afraid when you're in that position then you're in that position and you have to work out how you don't collide and stay ahead given the circumstances. You need to race smarter.

Mark can clearly see Vettel coming through because he looks in his mirror. Webber then moves over ever so slightly to squeeze him and once Vettel is ahead on the inside he believes he has got through and moves over slightly for braking into the corner. Mark should have accepted he'd lost the position and got in position to try and get back at Sebastian at the next corner - but Mark simply isn't talented enough to do that. He probably would have repassed him.

Look at Jenson and Lewis - always thinking ahead to the next corner.

[Giblet]

Vettel moved over on webber just like he did to Hamilton in the pit lane.

It's amusing to see this shite brought up again, but not surprising:

1. That was in the pitlane where you're not allowed to pass and overtake.


2. Hamilton decided to drive where you aren't allowed to drive in the pitlane.

3. Hamilton wasn't going to get past as Vettel was clearly going to and had no track position or right to do what he did as Vettel did.

4. Vettel had track position by virtue of being alongside and ahead.

Absolutely not related in any way, but you'll get some nutcases trying to draw parallels.

Wrong race don't do this thread injustice by going over old crap that has been beaten into the ground and nobody agrees on. Don't feed trolls.

[Jersey Tom]

That's on Vettel, not Webber. Stupid decision... super high risk & low reward, and that's what happens.

Totally disagree. It was a race as the McLaren drivers have demonstrated. Seb was right to give it a try. Weber was very unwise to leave very little room. Vettel was braking on the dirty side and needed more space because his brakes did not pull equally well on the dirty track. Classic racing accident.

The McLaren drivers escaped purely by luck not crashing themselves out when they bumped wheels. Equally dumb.

[djos]

Everyone who mistakenly blames vettel, look how button has handled it. He left space for his faster teammate in the turn, instead of squeezing against him like a moron.

Thing is Webber didn't squeeze him, he simply drove in a straight line giving Vettel just enough room but making it as likely as possible that he'd be able to go around the outside to get the inside line on the next corner. Vettel turned in to him to try and squeeze him wider and give himself a more beneficial line.

Vettel's error in my view - drivers don't need to roll out a red carpet when someone tries to overtake. They have a duty to give the other car room, which Webber did, but equally it's up to the overtaking car not to run into the other car. Vettel failed on that latter point.

Well Put, there's some truly blind ppl around here, even EJ pointed the finger at Vettel while trying very hard to sit on the Fence!!!

[CHT]

Mclaren's team order to Button?

"Save fuel and tyre especially on turn 8, its critical"

They told Hamilton to save fuel 10 laps before they told Button

They said they didnt steal ferrari secrets too

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Button wasnt low on fuel.

Thats just Mclaren BS, they wanted a one-two finish and Button looked faster then Hamilton. So instead of doing a "Red Bull", they issued some phoney command for Button to toe line.... tell me Im wrong!!!

As usual you are wrong... Here on SPEEDTV they played the radio command to Hamilton to save fuel 10 laps before they gave the same command to Button, I'm sure they put the same amount of fuel in the cars.

Why tell Button AFTER the overtaking?
They would have known that Button was running low at exactly the same time as they did Hamilton.
As I said, phoney command to keep a faster Button in check!

[segedunum]

What happened in the moment of the pass does not cancel that Vettel put the two of them in that position.

What put them in that position was Webber being slow, and it was brewing for a couple of laps. He was so slow I actually thought he was letting Vettel past.

How Mark decided to defend that dictated what happened because Vettel had to get into position to brake for the corner. Mark decided to stay where he was when the position had already gone. Had he raced smarter and got into position for the corner in a wider line he probably would have retaken the place without any drama.

Look at Jenson and Lewis as to how it should be done.

[vall]

I think Vettel turned right and hit Mark. It was not MArk's fault. For god sake, he just drove straight.....

I'm afraid when you're in that position then you're in that position and you have to work out how you don't collide and stay ahead given the circumstances. You need to race smarter.

Mark can clearly see Vettel coming through because he looks in his mirror. Webber then moves over ever so slightly to squeeze him and once Vettel is ahead on the inside he believes he has got through and moves over slightly for braking into the corner. Mark should have accepted he'd lost the position and got in position to try and get back at Sebastian at the next corner - but Mark simply isn't talented enough to do that. He probably would have repassed him.

Look at Jenson and Lewis - always thinking ahead to the next corner.

I disagree, watch the video on page 18. It was obvious Vettel turned into Mark. Period. Mark gave him just enough space.

[Mysticf1]

Sure people can say Webber should have moved over and given more room, and Vettel could have not moved and still made the pass, but this is F1 and they are both fighting for the WDC, Webber left room and did NOT deviate his line at all, it is quite clear on the onboard that Vettel moved over...i dont see how this can be interpreted any differently, if it can id like to hear it with supporting evidence.

The post race interview with Vettel is quite telling...he does not mention moving over at any point only that he was "concentrating on his braking point" and that Mark hit him....Vettel could have kept is line and still made a pass....he knows he screwed up but his ego will not allow him to admit it.

Horner is just being diplomatic...in the end Vettel scored an own goal...now 15 points behind Webber...how will this change their relationship will be extremely interesting.

Thats my take