Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

[roost89]

Vettel then accepts the blame (bet most won't remember that)
I believe blame goes to both drivers. Webber for pushing wide at the start of the straight bit and Vettel for turning into Webber and causing the crash.

The last bit is the most prejudiciable! Vettel really did compromise his whole team (a freakin' double) for personal vanity! He is obviously responsible, and seems to admit it.
It is possible for anyone to make something really stupid under pressure and/or lead by arrogance, especially for a race driver in a top serie, but as long as it's not repeated ad infinitum (don't become a 2000-2006 Schuey), and you're strong enough to admit your faults, you should be forgiven.

I try to be un-prejudice, however that was my opinionated part of that section.

Shall be more factual in future. Stick to the facts, zero opinion. Hopefully zero opinion!

Ta for picking thatt up Vyselegend.

[raymondu999]

It's bad enough this is becoming a Webber-Vettel fistfight. Can we not have a bringing up of Vettel-Hamilton China though? Similar or whatever you call it, these are two separate incidents.

[CHT]

Button wasnt low on fuel.

Thats just Mclaren BS, they wanted a one-two finish and Button looked faster then Hamilton. So instead of doing a "Red Bull", they issued some phoney command for Button to toe line.... tell me Im wrong!!!

You can obviously see that from Hamilton's body language as he cross the chequered flag. Usually if it is a well deserved victory, he will be scream like a baby..For this case, I think it pretty obvious that Button was told to back off. Common, if there is going to be a tyre graining issue, is has got to be Hamilton first, not button.

[ISLAMATRON]

Vettel moved over on webber just like he did to Hamilton in the pit lane.

It's amusing to see this shite brought up again, but not surprising:

1. That was in the pitlane where you're not allowed to pass and overtake.


2. Hamilton decided to drive where you aren't allowed to drive in the pitlane.

3. Hamilton wasn't going to get past as Vettel was clearly going to and had no track position or right to do what he did as Vettel did.

4. Vettel had track position by virtue of being alongside and ahead.

Absolutely not related in any way, but you'll get some nutcases trying to draw parallels.

Wrong race don't do this thread injustice by going over old crap that has been beaten into the ground and nobody agrees on. Don't feed trolls.

Nobody is trolling... it must be mentioned that Vettel has a history of not giving his competitors proper racing room(moving over on them instead of maintaining his line)... it is quite relevent.

[myurr]

I think Vettel turned right and hit Mark. It was not MArk's fault. For god sake, he just drove straight.....

I'm afraid when you're in that position then you're in that position and you have to work out how you don't collide and stay ahead given the circumstances. You need to race smarter.

Mark can clearly see Vettel coming through because he looks in his mirror. Webber then moves over ever so slightly to squeeze him and once Vettel is ahead on the inside he believes he has got through and moves over slightly for braking into the corner. Mark should have accepted he'd lost the position and got in position to try and get back at Sebastian at the next corner - but Mark simply isn't talented enough to do that. He probably would have repassed him.

Look at Jenson and Lewis - always thinking ahead to the next corner.

Webber was thinking ahead which is why you're wrong about what he should have done. By keeping Vettel on the inside like that he increased his chances of getting a better line around the outside of that corner ready for the inside of the next corner.

He left Vettel room on the track, Vettel did not have to turn right into Webber's car that was entirely his choice and in my view it was his mistake.

Vettel was the one who needed to race smarter. He should not have tried to push Webber wide he should have just held the inside line and pushed wide on the corner exit. He had every chance of making it past but instead ruined both their races.

[ringo]

Button wasnt low on fuel.

Thats just Mclaren BS, they wanted a one-two finish and Button looked faster then Hamilton. So instead of doing a "Red Bull", they issued some phoney command for Button to toe line.... tell me Im wrong!!!

As usual you are wrong... Here on SPEEDTV they played the radio command to Hamilton to save fuel 10 laps before they gave the same command to Button, I'm sure they put the same amount of fuel in the cars.

Why tell Button AFTER the overtaking?
They would have known that Button was running low at exactly the same time as they did Hamilton.
As I said, phoney command to keep a faster Button in check!

What do you mean by a fast button?
do you think Button would have held that position for all those laps, followed by hamilton?
Hamilton clearly was owning button in the corners after the overtake and piling on the pressure. Button ignored the fuel saving mode and got a little optimistic.
Hamilton could have drove off if he chose to. Look on the timing, Hamilton slowed and button took a chance.
Anyway, Hamilton clearly showed button that he can't hang with him in a duel. No way Button would have fought Hamilton for so many laps and not go off.
The team was smart in telling them to settle down after that.

[djos]

Webber was thinking ahead which is why you're wrong about what he should have done. By keeping Vettel on the inside like that he increased his chances of getting a better line around the outside of that corner ready for the inside of the next corner.

He left Vettel room on the track, Vettel did not have to turn right into Webber's car that was entirely his choice and in my view it was his mistake.

Vettel was the one who needed to race smarter. He should not have tried to push Webber wide he should have just held the inside line and pushed wide on the corner exit. He had every chance of making it past but instead ruined both their races.

Exactly correct, why Vettel thought Webbo would roll over and play dead is beyond me!!!

[CHT]

I personally think that Webber should have let Vettel through if they wanted to keep the RBR 1-2 finish, because Vettel brakes will suffer if he continue follow so close to Webber throughout the remain part of the race.

Some might argue its about racing line, while others might argue that which car is ahead before the braking zone. Anyway, its good that RBR didnt do a 1-2. Bring on the F-duct Newey.

[ISLAMATRON]

Button wasnt low on fuel.

Thats just Mclaren BS, they wanted a one-two finish and Button looked faster then Hamilton. So instead of doing a "Red Bull", they issued some phoney command for Button to toe line.... tell me Im wrong!!!

As usual you are wrong... Here on SPEEDTV they played the radio command to Hamilton to save fuel 10 laps before they gave the same command to Button, I'm sure they put the same amount of fuel in the cars.

Why tell Button AFTER the overtaking?
They would have known that Button was running low at exactly the same time as they did Hamilton.
As I said, phoney command to keep a faster Button in check!

How are you so sure that Button wasn't told earlier and ignored it and needed to be reminded... all I know was that Hamilton was told to save fuel even before the RBR incident.

[djos]

I personally think that Webber should have let Vettel through if they wanted to keep the RBR 1-2 finish, because Vettel brakes will suffer if he continue follow so close to Webber throughout the remain part of the race.

Vettel should have held his line as Webber was doing, that is why it is Vettels Fault as he clearly turned right despite being still along side Webber.

Webber's only error was being too cautious with the light sprinkles of rain falling.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No radio transmission was given and nor did Button in his interview.
In fact he said "the race was still on".

This is not conducive to "saving fuel".

[West]

I blame Vettel; it's up to him to make a CLEAN (key word) pass unless there were team orders to let him pass. According to SPEED TV, as Vettel was talking to the pit wall, he said that he wanted to pass, but he did not tell them about it.

Edit: it looked like a classic noob karting mistake. Person A tries to overtake in a heavy braking zone by coming inside, as Person A slows down. Person B expects Person A to give room but alas both collide as Person A has no idea he's coming from behind.

Button should have also been the winner hadn't the fuel situation arisen.

Overall a great race.

[Paul Oz]

How are you so sure that Button wasn't told earlier and ignored it and needed to be reminded... all I know was that Hamilton was told to save fuel even before the RBR incident.

Well..... they did tell Lewis that Jenson had the same issue in that transmission. If theyre telling porkies to drivers to get them to do what they want, thats a whole bigger issue....

[ringo]

How are you so sure that Button wasn't told earlier and ignored it and needed to be reminded... all I know was that Hamilton was told to save fuel even before the RBR incident.

Exactly,
But anyway looking after the overtake, there was no way button would have gotten away. He realized he put himself in a dog fight he would not win. Through 13, 14 15... 1, 2, i though button would be dead. No way he would have survived that. Hamilton in the same car with an F duct and faster through turn 8. Button would have been put in his place.
It's a good thing Hamilton got him back in turn 2.

[Paul Oz]

No radio transmission was given and nor did Button in his interview.
In fact he said "the race was still on".

This is not conducive to "saving fuel".

But they told Lewis something like 'this applies to both cars.....'