Where did RBR go wrong with reliability?

[DaveKillens]

It's nice to speculate about a car design, and whether it has inherent flaws. So far this year, the Newey designed car driven by Sebastien vettel has suffered two DNF's. But until we are aware of the exact nature and cause of the failures, it's all just speculation. So a spark plug fails.. what caused it? Vibration from within the engine? A lean fuel mixture? Just a bad batch of parts from a supplier? Those are just three explanations, and each has a different cause. So until we are aware of the exact nature of the failures and the specific reasons for their failure, we just don't know, and to be perfectly honest, we're making noises that may not be even close to the truth.

[donskar]

"Where did RBR go wrong?"

The title of the thread is invalid. Two races run, Neweymobile takes pole in both; leads both. That's "wrong"? Vettel's problem in Bahrain appears to have had nothing to do with Newey's design. The failure in Australia may have been down to a supplier. Where is the design failure?

Personally, I'm happy to see RBR suffer these problems. Without them, this season would be shaping up as a one-make runaway -- just as we suffered through the beginning of last year. If you want to see some competitive racing in F1, I think you'll hope the RBR stays a little "buggy." The thought of Vettel in a dead reliable Newey car is downright scary.

If RBR would swap, I think Ferrari would trade Costa (and the Vatican) for Newey.

[segedunum]

Webber has been criticized for not being aggressive enough, now hes too aggressive...generalistic statements aren't smart.

Well, I don't know who has described Webber as that but that's a bit funny. Martin Brundle has often commented on how aggressively Webber gets the throttle down, you can see how much he often moves the car in a corner and how much kerb he takes and as for the risks he consistently takes when defending his position or attempting an overtake...........

Vettel can certainly be aggressive, but to suggest that he is harder on the quipment because he is more aggressive than Webber is........

[segedunum]

They just had one common technical problem with the car in two races so far. Engine isn't Newey's design. I can't see why are you jumping to conclusions. Bad luck happens.

Luck doesn't really come into it and Formula 1 teams can't rely on it. Given the nature of the failures (and they've already had a few in winter testing) it certainly points to something they're doing procedurally, in their preparation or in the processes they have. The only reassuring thing about that is that the design of the car is probably sound otherwise and there isn't anything inherently bad in it.

[Edis]

Seb complained about a vibration before the brake failed.

A failed brake does not have to equal exploding discs. The calipers can also fail.

He is starting to see the same curse that Kimi had. Having a blistering fast car that falls apart.

It wasn't a brake failure.

Red Bull has explained the failure as a 'torque drive between the front left axle and wheel'.

[marcush.]

They just had one common technical problem with the car in two races so far. Engine isn't Newey's design. I can't see why are you jumping to conclusions. Bad luck happens.

Luck doesn't really come into it and Formula 1 teams can't rely on it. Given the nature of the failures (and they've already had a few in winter testing) it certainly points to something they're doing procedurally, in their preparation or in the processes they have. The only reassuring thing about that is that the design of the car is probably sound otherwise and there isn't anything inherently bad in it.

+1

there is no luck involved on things like mechanical engineering.Only lack of applied knowledge.or lack of knowledge.. or plain ignorance.

if a failure is reoccurring this is easy ..easy to find easy to solve.
if the failure is only appearing single time you need to analyse where and why it happened,the basic design is ok but what caused this one time event and additionally how can you avoid it rehappening or is it even necessary to correct?
if you have failures all the time but scattered all over the place..with no real pattern ...then you are into the biggest trouble you can imagine..
Thank god it is affecting Seb only .. so there is a hint already there..

[raymondu999]

Weren't the Williams of the Mansell-Hill years reliable? Just wondering because those were Newey machines too, no?

[autogyro]

Weren't the Williams of the Mansell-Hill years reliable? Just wondering because those were Newey machines too, no?

Yes but Williams had IMO the best man manager of them all over seeing things, Patrick Head. This allowed Adrian to do his job without distraction, apart that is from Patrick.
Red Bull does not have a tight enough team IMO.

[Jersey Tom]

You push the limit as close as you can. Sometimes you go over. Such is life.

[marcush.]

You push the limit as close as you can. Sometimes you go over. Such is life.

Is shearing off drive pegs pushing the limit ? I can´t see that.If you design at the limit you have to look more deeply into lifing and wear and parts inspection.
the cars get cleaned and inspected after qualy...and they admitted to having at least one case of this happenning before according to Dr.Marko...

[raymondu999]

Actually, how many of you think Geoff Willis should be back?

[raymondu999]

I don't get it. Why is it that the RB6 is so darn bloody unreliable, and even more so than the RB5? Shouldn't the RB5 which was a clean sheet design have had more problems? Even if Vettel is a carbreaker as some people are saying, then why is it that his carbreaking didn't do much breaking of the car in 2009 last year?

[WhiteBlue]

I think that Red Bull do have a serious reliability problem or someone is sabotaging Seb Vettel's car. All the technical sh!t only happens to his car.

They had:

• spark plug failure in Bahrain
• loose front wheel in Australia
• broken left brake disk in Spain
• undiscovered tub damage from Spain or otherwise faulty tub in Monaco
• broken lower whisbone assembly and shock linkage in Turkey

That means we got five major technical problems in seven races!! Red Bull needs to find a man with an iron fist pretty fast who kicks butt and stops this incredible rot costing them heaps of points.

[raymondu999]

well to be fair tho Webbo did have a few problems in Turkey FP. Didn't happen when the reliability mattered, but it happened anyways.

[marcush.]

to me it look like their quality system is not working at all.
apart from the freaky sparkplug drama ,almost everything we saw is related to component failure related to lazy parts inspection processes or no checks at all.
It was mentioned that they had in preparation to the season the same problem with the sheared off pins...if so ...wow...no living FMEA proceedures in place there...so no proper analysis of failure ,no instant measures to rectify the consequences of the failure ,and far more important no actions taken to avoid this happening again by redesign,process improvement,people education whatever..
with lucious lucy or how he called her ,they said the yfound ,apart from the carck numerous things that were sub spec...WOW...
and on the first(!)weekend with the new build up tub ,they have a broken lower wishbone
+shock linkage ..before the race even starts..
quality proceedures lazy not implemented,full stop.Willis is gone and with him the reliability.It is pur luck ,as in the ol days...when racing was dangerous .